Daycare woes - options and advice

[kittykat]

Man oh man where to start!! Baby KK has been in daycare (half day) since he was 18mths and we had minor issues if any. I credit this to the wonderful teachers and the ethics of the daycare. I put him into daycare because I wanted him to socialise with other little'uns and it was fab. Now life is different - VERY....

I'm going through the process of bringing my helper out on student visa and which means she needs to study during the day (not full time but enough to need full-time care - ie 9am to 4pm or so)... We are coping because she stays with him until he moves to another room where it's a bit more "focused" (i.e. everyone dumps their kids at 7.30am then scoots off to work - the put the kids into one big room then send them off). It's truly that horrid.

So.... my diliemma is this. Baby KK is in an ABC (only place I could get him in) and the carers are "fair" to say the least. It's a corporate giant with "procedures" and a good method but the love and care is not there. Let me sum it up this way - dropped off baby KK the other morning - they put on brekkie for the kids (vegemite on toast that's it! - no honey or peanut paste - vegemite but that's another debate as my son doesn't like vegemite).. They were wearing gloves to serve the food (plastic/disposable ones) which makes you think cleanliness is paramount. A little baby who'd been left was sobbing her heart out in the corner and they ignored her. My helper told me (they forget she's there playing with Baby KK) that when the parents drop the kids off they are all nice and "we will look after them" but she said once the mummy had gone the carer said in a loud / brusque voice "mummy's at work - sit down and eat".

Guys - it's just the whole vibe of the place. They do their job but it's that - a job - ticks in the boxes but the heart isn't there which sadly I didn't find in Singapore. The carers - it was a vocation for them - a love they had for children.

I'm distraught!! So my options are:

1. Remove him immediately. My family in Brisbane will take care of him straight away and he'd be so loved and happy. This will allow me to find alternatives, new daycare centres plus will let my helper go back to get her student visa sorted. Worst case I need to put him back into ABC then it won't be 7.30am to 6pm which is what he will need to do with just me taking care of him.

2. Deal with it (as all my Oz friends are saying) and he will "come good"... The sentiment with my friends with kids here is that it's a rite of passage and he needs to just learn how to deal with the whole situation.

What to do?? Parents and non-Parents - advice and thoughts most welcome.

[Kooky]

It wasn't that long ago that a child-care centre in Sydney was locked up for the night with a young child still in it (That's not helping really, is it?)

You have feedback from your helper, but how is Baby KK responding to it? Could you all put up with it until a place comes up in a smaller, more personal centre? Can you send him off with his breakfast packed up? (Not feed him at home, so he feels left out there.)

[Satellite]

I don't know KK..

But when we moved apts, my parents transferred my sister to a kindergarten close by. My sister hated it. She referred to it as a prison. So we took her out and sent her back to her old place. But we left her at the "prison" in the meanwhile and told her that it was the school that was strange (just so she doesnt get put off with schools/education).

So, I suppose if baby KK does not get a bad impression of the place, might be possible to leave him there till you find a suitable place. If he does, maybe get your family to help first. To me at least, the last thing I want is to let a child feel that a school/education is a horrible place/thing. I don't know the situation now, but in my days going to kindergarten at 5-6 yr old was still not so common so it didn't make a huge difference if one didn't attend one. I imagine that baby KK is in nursery so it shouldnt make it that much of a big deal if he didn't attend one for a short while.

[kittykat]

Yes I remember reading that while living in SG and wondering "how the f*c*'... Now I know how it can happen. These places take about 80 kids a day!! All good questions (you are a wise gal)...

I'm ready to move if it means better daycare honestly. I'm also very lucky that I have a great family. They have offered to look after baby KK however long it takes to find him somewhere so I can look carefully. My helper is bang on - they forget she's there I'm sure at times. Her focus is baby KK and if she says "the love is not there" she's right.

Good idea on the breakfast but they "discourage" children bringing in their own food as it upsets the "balance"...

[Lili Von Shtupp]

If its true that your family will love to look after him and that he would be happy there, I'd say go for that. I mean really, the main reason daycare was invented was so that kids who had nowhere else to go had a place to go. Baby KK has somewhere else to go. And it would be really nice bonding time with family too.

Then you can take your time and search for maybe a half day option or a place you feel comfortable with. I wouldn't put Wolfie someplace that made me feel as uneasy as you obviously feel about this place, no matter what kind of life lessons he'd be learning.

But that's just my humble opinion.

[kittykat]

I don't know KK..

But when we moved apts, my parents transferred my sister to a kindergarten close by. My sister hated it. She referred to it as a prison. So we took her out and sent her back to her old place. But we left her at the "prison" in the meanwhile and told her that it was the school that was strange (just so she doesnt get put off with schools/education).

So, I suppose if baby KK does not get a bad impression of the place, might be possible to leave him there till you find a suitable place. If he does, maybe get your family to help first. To me at least, the last thing I want is to let a child feel that a school/education is a horrible place/thing. I don't know the situation now, but in my days going to kindergarten at 5-6 yr old was still not so common so it didn't make a huge difference if one didn't attend one. I imagine that baby KK is in nursery so it shouldnt make it that much of a big deal if he didn't attend one for a short while.

Hey Sat - the question is how do you know a good place??? As a parent they got total ticks in the boxes - good, nutritious meals (when they said wholegrain bread with vegemite, I didn't realise that was EVERY day). Nice outdoor area, nice toys, lots of lovely paintings on the wall - FMD - I realise now it was total Marketing 101 aimed at the buyers - the parents... Sucked in totally. If I'd have walked into somewhere that was more "boutique" what would my response have been.

Problem with Australia - is it's big money here. I pay $342 per week - no subsidies nothing - my son is in a class with 38 other children (YES with 1 fulltime and a part time to help change wet pants etc)... Do the sums. My son is in a group aged 3 to 4. They are in a house and start at 4 months! Big money. They guy that owns ABC just sold the Brisbane Bullets and has his own helicopter. It's about MONEY...

What to do

[Scrummy Mummy]

Nothing terribly useful to add, but my heart goes out to you, you must be feeling like shit. Unless they're actively awful to him then it won't harm him in the short term.

I'd echo what others have said; look around for alternatives then shift him. Are there childminders there? Or smaller nurseries?

Go with your gut feel and get him out, but he'll be ok for a little while.

[Scrummy Mummy]

Maybe I should get trained up and open a daycare centre in Oz when I move there!

[kittykat]

If its true that your family will love to look after him and that he would be happy there, I'd say go for that. I mean really, the main reason daycare was invented was so that kids who had nowhere else to go had a place to go. Baby KK has somewhere else to go. And it would be really nice bonding time with family too.

Then you can take your time and search for maybe a half day option or a place you feel comfortable with. I wouldn't put Wolfie someplace that made me feel as uneasy as you obviously feel about this place, no matter what kind of life lessons he'd be learning.

But that's just my humble opinion.

Lily - a humble but good opinion. You know what?? My friends who I'm turning to for advice are parents who've done the daycare scene here and it's normal for them. So, when I said I was thinking of sending Baby KK home my friend advised me against it and said Baby KK was being manipulative as her daughter was. FFS - my son is a toddler - he's not manipulative - his needs are pretty simple. Her daughter is now a spoilt brat who makes comments such as "why do we live the worst street - yuk I hate this house"...

Another friend (with 3 daycare legacies) said that I need to learn to understand that 'it's hit and miss' in daycare. They are making me feel like I have some primadonna on my hands sending Baby KK home and that my son will be an indulged brat.

Guys - what have I done???

[Satellite]

How do I know? Well it is tough! It was mostly from my sister... she would complain about the things she disliked at school. Told us she didn't like going there and wanted to go back to her old kindergarten etc. Then my mother and my brother went to "spy " on them. As to picking a right one... that is recommendations and gut feel....

[Scrummy Mummy]

You need new friends!

What a bloody awful attitude. You are his mother, you know what's right for him.

[slinky]

Is your family in Melbourne, KK? If so, it seems like a pretty good solution, but somehow I thought they were in Brisbane which would complicate things a bit.

[kittykat]

Maybe I should get trained up and open a daycare centre in Oz when I move there!

SM - seriously!!! You want to do that I would be there with you. As a parent who's seen the best of childcare and the challenging I'd have some ideas. It sux!! We have/had an amazing system in SG for help - Australia with a multitude of riches cannot provide even reasonable care based on my experiences. If we could merge the two we'd be on a good wicket.

Simple analogy. The other morning when I left Baby KK he became so distraught he threw up. The teachers came out and dragged me back and told me to take him home but I had to clean up first. It was "that's not my job to clean up vomit". As a mother - I'd do it a thousand times. Get the balance right and focus on the issue - a little boy so distraught not the fact he threw up!!

When you are ready - totally... I think the Rudd Gvnt could be smart enough to realise there's talent out there who would do a better job than the local talent could - possibly??

[Satellite]

Do you have neighbour "aunties" who can help you out for the time being so you're still closeby to baby KK? (We have it in Singapore - not offical of course!)

[kittykat]

You need new friends!

What a bloody awful attitude. You are his mother, you know what's right for him.

Lily - HUG!! I agree. They think that I've been "spoilt" in SG - this is the real world. It's different here - so different!!! The refer to "well we don't all have MAIDS in Australia - this is the real world"... Wahhhh.... I'm so disappointed in them. One of them said - let him deal with it - he'll learn to fight his way to the top of the group - my girls did. His eldest ended up in counselling at 5, second - hacked her hair off at 4 for attention.... Had a counsellor come visit to see she wasn't "self-destructive"... Guys - I'm drowning here!! This is the advice I'm getting from Daycare veterans... I want to come back!!

[kittykat]

Do you have neighbour "aunties" who can help you out for the time being so you're still closeby to baby KK? (We have it in Singapore - not offical of course!)

Sat! You are so lovely but no.. It's different here. We ship our old people who have any money off to old peoples' homes. The family unit is "fragmented" in general. He needs to go home to his family in Brissy as much as it will break my heart to send him home I know he will be loved. As Lily said we put our children in care because our family is not there.

MESSAGE TO ALL OF US... next time our family annoy us - we are lucky to have them.... mantra mantra mantra...

[Satellite]

well don't worry and don't panic... i'm sure you'll find a suitable child care after looking at a few more. maybe you could do a google search for reviews of potential childcare in an attempt to get a feel for the place.

[Aliya]

KK I would ship him off to your family. At least he will be happy there. And then spend the time to find a smaller more child friendly place. That is what I would do. I wouldnt put up with what you have been putting up with. I dont care what other people think, just because they are used to shite childcare why should you. And you know the difference between good and bad childcare, I do know that.

SM you know that is not a bad idea, why dont you train and open a small upmarket place for expat kids in Sydney! K could assist

[Scrummy Mummy]

KK I would ship him off to your family. At least he will be happy there. And then spend the time to find a smaller more child friendly place. That is what I would do. I wouldnt put up with what you have been putting up with. I dont care what other people think, just because they are used to shite childcare why should you. And you know the difference between good and bad childcare, I do know that.

SM you know that is not a bad idea, why dont you train and open a small upmarket place for expat kids in Sydney! K could assist

Because I want to live in Perth?

Or shall I open boarding day-care?

[Pinklepurr]

Oh KK, you poor thing, this is awful. Get him out of there and do what you have to do. You know you don't want to send him back. Of course you are not making him spoilt by doing so. Good day care is hard to find, and if you don't have the right place then just leave it. You are so lucky to have your helper there to let you know what is going on. Don't worry about what people say, anyone, this is your child you are talking about and nothing else matters. You don't have to put up with anything. What you don't need right now are horror stories like the ones you seem to have been told. How awful.

There are great places around, and I am sure that you can find one. Personally I would stay away from any of the big chain places, if it takes a while to book him in somewhere then maybe the option of sending him to your family for a little while is a good one. I know many of the centres have long waiting lists, but I found that I rang every single one I could get to, made appointments to visit, and the good ones will let you visit at any time, even nap time. You will get a feel for a good place when you are there. Just remember it doesn't have to be too close to home, are there any near your work, is that an option? What areas are you looking in? Have you thought of going further out rather than in?

We had a great place for our kids back in Melbourne but it took a lot of finding.and . I was panicking for my first one as I had to return to work and I almost took a place at one I wasn't sure about, but then I fluked it into getting a place at this one and knew it was just right. So just keep trying, don't be discouraged. Don't listen to the nasty stuff from others, why are they saying things like that? You know my kids loved it and we could tell, at the end of each day th teachers/carers made a point of letting you know how the day went for your child, any problems were talked about and milestones were highlighted. Nothing was ever a problem either, and even though I had major trouble with my older one, they helped and actually assisted in getting an aide for him at primary school when he left. So don't be disheartened there are good places there, you have just struck a bad one.

Big hugs KK, I hope it sorts itself out quickly for you.

[Bender]

My family in Brisbane will take care of him straight away

This may not be a bad option while you sort things out, and your family may qualify for FTB-A or other assistance while they look after him.

ABC is not the best, exists for profit, and has been in financial trouble recently. Family day care may be a good option if you can get a good place. The lady living over our back fence has been doing this for ages and the kids she looks after seem really happy to be there.

Just for information, DEEWR is the Federal Government Department which looks after childhood services, their website may be of interest. The Victorian State Government DEECD also has infomation which might be useful.

The Childcare Accreditation Council website has a "search for childcare" page.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[Aliya]

Perth Smerth! Either way Daycare seems to be a lucrative business to get into. Am checking into what training you need to get something up and running here in Singapore.

[Fat Bob]

Other option is to give your kids up for adoption......

[azzam]

Kiity Kat, my heart breaks for you - really! I know exactly what you are talking about and agree wholeheartedly with what the others are saying. Add to all this the fact that your little guy has just moved countries and is possibly out of sorts anyway - it is so hard. I have very similar memories of trying to work out what was best for my son. I remember particularly coming back to him after only an hour or so, when I was just testing, to find his little face all swollen from crying, and they had ignored him the whole time. Anyone who could leave a child sobbing without comfort, or watch your little guy vomit and do nothing to help him just needs to be taken out and shot, as far as I'm concerned. Get him out of there.
In the end I gave up work, enrolled at university again and took my boy with me every day. The university had the best creche I've ever seen, staffed by students doing graduate work with the Education Dept, so they knew what they were doing. This gave us three years until he was almost ready for school and I got back into paid work.
I'm not suggesting you stop work, but maybe check out to see if the university has a centre attached to it?

Sending him to your parents might be best for now - but I would worry that it's yet another change for him when he has enough to deal with already. Can you find anyone to look after him at home for a while, another local mother maybe? Could your Mum come down to you for a while?

[Possum]

I would definitely not send him to Brisbane. As you have had many changes in your life by your move to Aus so has he. You, as his mother, are the most important and one constant factor in his life. See if a member of your family can come and stay with you for a while first until you find somewhere more suitable for him. Make a list of all day-care and private carers in your area then start crossing them off. Don’t call to make an appointment but drop in casually to request one. This gives you a great feel for the place in a manner that is not staged or set. Work out what you expect from his time there (social, educational and emotional mix that works for you and him) and that will lead you to know what to look for. Focus on the other kids there and the staff. Do the majority of them look/act happy, relaxed and healthy? I know many people find in OT the amount of time some parents put into the choice of nursery’s or schools but the environment you place your child in during their developmental years has a huge impact on the adult they become. Monkey see’s monkey does.