When do kids start understanding No?

[Aliya]

When can you start telling kids "no" ie "no dont touch" before they actually get it? An very active duracel 11 month old gets it for about 5 seconds and then forgets. Am not expecting any great things at all and know it is all about consistency etc but when should I start being firm about "no" things and when will she start to understand? She now realises that ovens are hot and "no, hot" means hot

[azzam]

When she's about 90.
Chill

[Aliya]

Not wound up about it, but want to ensure that we have some discipline in the house after seeing some horribly behaved kids recently - don't want that...

[azzam]

I think, from memory, I started by removing as many of the things I would need to say "no" about from his reach.
So then, we could work on the important things things like - 'don't hit Mummy on the nose', rather than 'don't touch Mummy's porcelain vase'.
But then my approach was rather lame compared to some, I guess. I wanted him to be at home in his own home, while learning the rules of being "good" outside of home. Like manners and respect etc etc.
I guess it worked, I remember someone telling me after watching me with him, that I never escalated anything. I know I certainly didn't want to spend my life arguing over small stuff. So, maybe you need to give some thought to what the important things are to set limits over. Agree, they certainly need those limits! They need it and like it.
Just pick your battles I guess is the short form of what I mean.
What else...didn't shout or smack. It wasn't necessary. I think it was more a thing of getting their attention. Holding his hands, getting down to eye level, a very firm no. Removing the object if it was going to become a battle, or removing him from the arena.
A very wise woman told me once, say "I don't like you doing that because...rather than just 'Dont!' " She did it with my son once and I saw how it worked well with him - he kind of went "oh, really? Ok then" Older of course.
At her age, I would just keep dangerous, delicate stuff out of her way, or run yourself ragged trying to keep up with her.
Sometimes, I think it's not rocket science and I don't understand what people make such a fuss about. Other times I think I was just lucky to have a child I liked as well as loved and who was reasonably manageable. May not have been so lucky a second time.

Oh, and don't worry - it never stops - every age, a new issue. You run to keep up with them and most of it just comes with maturity. It's fun, enjoy.

[baloo]

I'm starting to find BBIII, at just over 10 months, can tell by the tone of voice if something isn't right.

[Lili Von Shtupp]

Azz, your approach is pretty much exactly the same as mine. Wolfie's now 22 months. I've made a concerted effort to avoid saying "no" because I don't want to overuse it to the point where it becomes meaningless. Instead, I "redirect" if he's getting into something that I don't want him into, I look for something of equal interest that's acceptable then redirect him. Babyproofing, like Azz said, saves a lot of unneccesary battles. I overlook a lot of things other parents might not - I ask myself, will it kill him? Will it kill me? If the answer's no, most times I'll just avoid the fight.

But I do pay attention to the language I use. Our most recent battle was getting him to sit on the couch, as opposed to standing, jumping, climbing or running on it, all of which he does with gusto. Rather than say "no" or "don't do that" I say "sit!" and "we sit on couches." Now he gets it and even says "sit!" to us when he wants us to sit next to him on the couch. It took a bit of time and consistency but worked out.

One word I do tend to oversue, however, is "stop," which he has come to understand means, "run away faster."

[Aliya]

Excellent advice laydees. I have found myself saying "no no no" lately and as Baloo says she either knows my tone of voice or looks a bit guilty to be doing something I have said no about and I DONT want a child at that age to look guilty! I felt like shite. So this weekend will remove all the stuff that can break (OMG imagine a pristine non cluttered Aliya house) and work on the positive stuff like you said. I like the "dont do this because.." and the "we sit on couches" approach because I as a child responded much better when I knew why my parents didnt want me to do something. Appreciate at this age she cant understand much of what I say or reason but I suppose if I start off right now by the time she can then we will have set down good principles for us both.

[kittykat]

Lilly. Love the "Stop" story.

Azz - you really have your act together and you inspire me a lot!

A - wait your little one learns to say the word "No". At the moment I ask baby KK to do something like "come and eat your dinner" and he smiles and says "No way" then we start the "way game". "Yes way" - "No way". Other ones he has "Don't want, don't want, don't want" and the best one "mummy come" when he wants me to come and play with him or sit beside him. (He goes to a local kindy so I think his language is influenced by the other children).

[musxzart]

when they start to bleed. they always do. like in school. i said no jumping on chairs. after 1 min, they do it again, and they fell down, hurt their limbs or something. bleed a bit, and then the whole 40 of them will learn. its easy.

[Aliya]

Tee hee hee Mus. Or when they start to burn fingers, ovens are hot I told ya

Yes Azz can be quite inspiring . Seriously.

[BFG]

I agree with Lilli and Baloo.

Don't overuse the "No" word and make sure you use a particular tone of voice. It really is very much like training dogs to the gun. Honest...

"Sit" and "stay" are drilled in to be obeyed at all times (safety reasons). "Drop" when a hand is extended (not too vital)

[baloo]

At what age do they start learning what 'get your father a beer from the fridge and make sure it's one of the cold ones and DON'T shake it up' ?

[kittykat]

I've taught baby KK to clink glasses and say "cheers". He has juice and I have champagne in mine. He also asks me if I want coffee. Doesn't do anything when I say "yes please" but that should come in time when he's old enough to handle hot water. I don't want the neighbours thinking I'm a bad mother.

[Pinklepurr]

At what age do they start learning what 'get your father a beer from the fridge and make sure it's one of the cold ones and DON'T shake it up' ?

At about age two, but it stops again very quickly (especially when they work out that daddy then won't play with them because he is watching sport on TV).

[Aliya]

I taught my godchildren the difference between white auntie juice, red auntie juice and bubbly auntie juice. Aged 1 year my eldest godchild could crawl to the wine rack and get the right colour out

[Possum]

I started using the word no (in different tones) as soon as they started moving followed by a tap on the hand on the third no. I only moved things that could seriously harm them or were very precious to me; everything else was left where it was. A good part of your life with your child is spend outside the home (friends, family, restaurants, shops, parties, travel…) where you do not have control over the environment. Unless you want your child to behave like a sugar deprived addict released in a candy shop they need to know that some things are to be touched and some are not. Visiting places where you spend the whole time chasing your child and removing objects from their clutches is no fun for you or your host. It’s a long slow process

[Tack]

You've got all the good advice. A lot will depend on the kid. I think some just have to learn the hard way in regards to preventing them hurting themselves but one incidence of them hurting themselves can be used to prevent others eg "hot, like the oven" and pointing out where it hurt the child to remind them. With one I had to babyproof the environment to the nth degree until he was 2 AND be ultra vigilent, with the other I didn't. Consistancy is the key with almost everything. And I found smacking unhelpful having tried it briefly with first one, now I'm totally against it.

[cromasaig]

I've been trying (with very little success) to limit my use of the word 'no'. I try "the food/spoon/cup goes on the table", rather than "no" (or rather "if you throw your toast on the floor for the thirteenth time in a row I'm going to be forced to dangle you out of the window..."). Still, the 'N' word seems to be a staple of conversation with the herd, I'm afraid.

But it seems I shake my head while saying "we don't touch the fan". This means child A crawls up to the fan, look at me, shakes his head and then prods the fan - still looking at me. Oh, it's a hilarious game, she says, through gritted teeth.

Oh, as a quick edit, Tack is definitely right that children respond completely differently to the word, and the concept, of no. While twins can be hard work, at least you don't beat yourself up about some forms of behaviour. They're walking proof that exactly the same parenting approach will have very different results between children!

[Possum]

Thinking about it logically if a child can understand that mummm or dadada refers to you then shouldn't they be able to understand that No means No.

[BFG]

If all else fails, cattle prods...

[cromasaig]

Or a ring through their noses?

[azzam]

Thinking about it logically if a child can understand that mummm or dadada refers to you then shouldn't they be able to understand that No means No.

Yeah, but at that age they are developing their little sense of "self" and testing limits etc etc, so giving them something to head butt against risks just turning it into a battle of wills - the more hedastrong they are, the more you get drawn into it. So why not remove the bones of contention and think about ways to use that willful streak in good ways? Never ending story, I know...

edit: also, as Baloo mentioned - by saving my "nos' for the important stuff, he really knew the difference. If I ever got angry, it would really shake my son up. So much so, that I learnt to contain it. Parenting by fear is just the pits, in my book. Fascist parents = rebellious children.

A,the thing that woman taught me, wasn't just "Don't because.." -Any reasonable parent would give reasons anyway. It was her saying "I don't Like you doing that...because " Not just "Don't". It's the magic "I" word. Somewhere, inside their head there's a moment of "Oh, that upsets him/her if I do that. I don't want that to happen" ( Or maybe they do...) That was her logic. Makes sense. But, as I say, the boy was a bit older by then.

An example I remember - the boy hurtling himself down the stairs head first on his tummy. Instead of yelling and telling him to stop it, she simply said " I really don't like you doing that, because I'm afraid you are going to hurt yourself. Can you stop please?" And he did. I was flabbergasted.

[azzam]

Don't listen to me. My son has just skyped me about his new girlfriend and says he will email my people when the first child is born.

Where did I go wrong?

edit: He just expressed surprise that I have any friends. I've sent him to the naughty step.

[slinky]

Oh, as a quick edit, Tack is definitely right that children respond completely differently to the word, and the concept, of no. While twins can be hard work, at least you don't beat yourself up about some forms of behaviour. They're walking proof that exactly the same parenting approach will have very different results between children!

Ahhh, so true, so true!! Little Boy Slink is the king of what we like to call 'The shades of grey' game. We say 'Don't bang your fork on the table, please' and he proceeds to tap it very lightly and then increase the force of the tap to what he figures is just the breaking point of banging it Little Slinkette doesn't generally play that game. She's more of a 'follow the rules' type of girl - she's even quite good at pointing out when her brother is up to no good - 'Mom! He's doing it again!' Good stuff!

Yep, I think my vocabulary has diminished quite a lot in the past 4.5 years or so......I don't seem to say a whole lot more than: 'Please don't do that because....' or 'OK, it's time to stop that now...' and 'If you beat on your sister you'll have to sit in your room...' You know, stimulating stuff like that

[musxzart]

ah, i desperately need a job change too before i turn into like you too slinks! hahahaha....