Australia on track to a female PM?

Burbage · Post by **Burbage** » 27th Jul, '10, 22:58

Who said it was democratic? Even it it was, democracy is shite anyway. Best government system I've lived under was the Singapore system. Give me a benevolent dictatorship any time. I just don't want to be there when it goes wrong.

cromasaig · Post by **cromasaig** » 27th Jul, '10, 23:00

Burb. What makes you think it's benevolent?

Fat Bob wrote:Compulsory voting is forcing people to do something that they may not wish to do.

There's nothing undemocratic about forcing people to do something they don't want to do. At a basic level, democracies work by forcing a minority to do what the majority wishes.

Burbage · Post by **Burbage** » 27th Jul, '10, 23:01

Benevolentish. Certainly more useful for the average Joe than Australia's garbage system.

Tas · Post by **Tas** » 27th Jul, '10, 23:02

I on the other hand completely agree and believe in the legal obligation to vote. I think the debate about true democracy and the right not to vote are over intellectulised positions that unfortunately for my powers of argument are bought down to a very base position that it feels damn right not wrong. Burbage is correct in the point about 20mill population, but also Crom and other position is allowed for not by a tick box, but a dud vote is not counted - line thru the ballot paper, defaced, or just leave empty.
personally I know people have the discussion about how on occasion their vote doesnt' count - but I fundamentally don't agree - there are too many examples of close elections and recounts required to invalidate that position (for me the 2nd Bush term was a great example, think also of the last Afghanistan election)
Sheesh that was a damn good and long post considering I've had 15 Baiju gambai tonight, F'Me I'm toasted,

Burbage · Post by **Burbage** » 27th Jul, '10, 23:05

Too much Yalumba classic dry red for me. $12 for two litres. At least one thing in Australia's favour.

Tas · Post by **Tas** » 27th Jul, '10, 23:07

Burbage wrote:Benevolentish. Certainly more useful for the average Joe than Australia's garbage system.

Shit man, when are you gonna get on a plane outta here. Surely you'll be a happier man. What was so wrong with France anyway. How's Ireland looking these days?

Burbage · Post by **Burbage** » 27th Jul, '10, 23:09

Tas wrote: How's Ireland looking these days?

Rather difficult to get to unfortunately. That's the colonies for you.

baloo · Post by **baloo** » 27th Jul, '10, 23:15

Fat Bob wrote:Very undemocratic. I know the Aussie press, and possibly the government, like to complain about other countries systems, well, Australia isn't that far forward down the democratic line, if it is at all.

We complain a hell of a lot more about our own system than we do about others.

I'm in favour of compulsory voting. It does make people think more about it as while donkey votes do happen, most punters will decide to have a think about who they want if they're forced to go and line up.

Where there isn't forced voting you are more likely only to get votes from the people who are strongly leaning one way or another, the silent majority really don't have a say in the end result, which I think is unfortunate.

Burbage · Post by **Burbage** » 27th Jul, '10, 23:18

I'm happy with compulsory voting as long as you don't give everyone the vote in the first place. Earn your vote; then you might get some decent politicians.

baloo · Post by **baloo** » 27th Jul, '10, 23:21

Burbage wrote:I'm happy with compulsory voting as long as you don't give everyone the vote in the first place. Earn your vote; then you might get some decent politicians.

Well the US forbids convicted felons from voting. I guess thats a start for you. Why don't you head over to the good ol' US of A ?

Tas · Post by **Tas** » 27th Jul, '10, 23:22

Im pretty sure if I stopped for long enough I could find an argument for compulsory voting. butI agree with it. people have to show up and take a position. they can dud it, or stop to think about it. I think non compulsory voting system, purely from observation, end up with more extreme governments. I still think as mentioned earlier the 2nd Bush term was a good example of what was wrong with non compulsory voting (lets not get into the weird shit about the problems with a compterised system that wasn't working or road blockage issues in certain racial sectors). Also of interest is a discussion of late with a couple of Belgiums wrt their govt not being formalised for 3+yrs

edit: might be hammered but can just recognize a spelling whoopsie

Burbage · Post by **Burbage** » 28th Jul, '10, 06:34

baloo wrote:
Well the US forbids convicted felons from voting. I guess thats a start for you. Why don't you head over to the good ol' US of A ?

Sure. You provide the job, the funds and the green card. My comments apply to pretty much all democracies. This happens to be a thread on the Australian election.

Fat Bob · Post by **Fat Bob** » 28th Jul, '10, 07:51

Tas, I hardly think taking one example and suggesting it's something wrong with the system is a good example. Playing devil's advocate, the USSR had a enforced, compulsory voting system, hardly a less extreme government.

The UK: certainly not a compulsory voting system, hardly an extreme government in the last 200 years.

32 countries have a compulsory voting system according to Wiki, 19 of which enforce it to some degree. I'd hardly say that the list gives good reading on extreme (non-compulsory voting systems) versus non-extreme (compulsory voting system) governments.

I suppose it comes down to whether you think the idea of voting as a civic duty (like tax, jury duty, conscription) or a civil right (like freedom of speech).

Fat Bob · Post by **Fat Bob** » 28th Jul, '10, 07:53

baloo wrote:
Burbage wrote:I'm happy with compulsory voting as long as you don't give everyone the vote in the first place. Earn your vote; then you might get some decent politicians.
Well the US forbids convicted felons from voting. I guess thats a start for you. Why don't you head over to the good ol' US of A ?

Ah, the good ol' "if you don't like it, f$%k off to somewhere you do". Hardly a ringing endorsement for one argument or another.

Bender · Post by **Bender** » 28th Jul, '10, 08:40

baloo wrote:Why don't you head... ?

NO! Stay! Suffer!

baloo · Post by **baloo** » 28th Jul, '10, 08:43

Fat Bob wrote:
baloo wrote:
Well the US forbids convicted felons from voting. I guess thats a start for you. Why don't you head over to the good ol' US of A ?
Ah, the good ol' "if you don't like it, f$%k off to somewhere you do". Hardly a ringing endorsement for one argument or another.

Hardly a fuck off comment. Burby told us of his dream government. I merely suggested a country where it's closer to his dream than anywhere else. Why bother living in a country you despise ?

But his subsequent comment of needing someone to provide a job, money and work permit first makes me think Burby is either Generation Y, where everything is expected to be easy, or he's happy in Australia where a lot of the welfare leeches also expect everything they want handed to them by someone else.

Burbage · Post by **Burbage** » 28th Jul, '10, 14:33

I get neither welfare nor the vote here.

It's seems that it's you that wants me to leave, not me that has any interest in going. Perhaps you are afraid I'll become PM.

Bender · Post by **Bender** » 28th Jul, '10, 14:54

Burbage wrote:I get neither welfare nor the vote here... Perhaps you are afraid I'll become PM.

No fear of that - if you can't vote, it's unlikely you'll become PM. But why the interest in the election? It's not like you can influence the outcome unless you invoke your godly powers.

...and, of course, there's nothing stopping you from leaving if you don't like it.

Burbage · Post by **Burbage** » 28th Jul, '10, 15:34

I may not be able to vote, but I still pay the bastards' salaries.

Fat Bob · Post by **Fat Bob** » 28th Jul, '10, 18:19

I think that's my one minor gripe about not getting the vote in Singapore. That, and the fact that Singapore citizens living int he UK have some voting rights, which are not reciprocated here.

But there again, there's so many positives about not having the vote here. An extra days leave every polling day with nothing to do but enjoy the world for one!

Joseph27 · Post by **Joseph27** » 31st Jul, '10, 09:02

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 5899236702

The ALP have a battle ahead of them - Howard at this stage of the 1999 election was also in trouble with Polls in Labors favor howevere they won teh day but actually lost the majority - fortunately for them the Australian parliamentary system doesnt require an outright majority to win.

I dont know what i will do for this election - I dont like either candidate.

Mr Oz · Post by **Mr Oz** » 31st Jul, '10, 22:48

oh burby, I still respect you and and I can't f*ck off to where I come from cause I'm already there...

Burbage · Post by **Burbage** » 1st Aug, '10, 10:21

Keep taking the tablets Mr Oz.

Tas · Post by **Tas** » 9th Aug, '10, 09:16

by the by. Saw Johny Howard out on his walk today. Absolutely sure of it, it was just down from Bells Point, towards Wollstonecraft, near where I think he lives now. Had a blue trackie suit and a beanie on, but when I saw those glasses I was sure it was him. But no detail flanking him these days.

Pinklepurr · Post by **Pinklepurr** » 9th Aug, '10, 21:49

What he was just by himself? Scary sight anyway I think.

I am finding this election campaign quite funny to watch as our first since we have been back, and also my first with a teenager watching it with me. It is fascinating what he comes up with whilst watching the various ads for the different parties and the like. He is most incredulous with the anti -Julia ads re the no more boat people, and asked me why is was such an issue. I have to admit that I just could not explain it away. It really makes me want to get on the next plane out of here that this could be an election issue of major importance.

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