Aussie speak - help please

[Dinosaur]

Can one of you Aussie residents help me? When an Australian refers to an Asian, what exactly do they mean? I get the feeling that they don't mean Asian. Do they mean Indians? Indian Australians? South Asians?

[Kooky]

I'll have to leave that to a real Aussie, as I wouldn't have a clue if they were being specific or just referring to Asians generally. I would think they'd say Indian if they meant Indian.

Can you give us more context?

[Tas]

The usage of Asian has a tendency to cover from Far West China (incl North China), down to the bottom sothern tip of Indonesia. People who travelled a bit might refer to Indians as Asian, but not common. But I'm sure the resident god will correct me on what it is Aussies mean with their generalisations

[baloo]

Haven't lived there for a while but I'm inclined to agree that Indians wouldn't be classed as Asian by the general population.

[Burbage]

As far as I can see it's a pretty broad term that different people here use differently, depending on the context.

In terms of racial appearance (ie when Australians see people on the street and don't know which nationality they are) I think Tas is right. The mongoloid peoples of eastern asia would be called Asians, the peoples of the Indian sub-continent would generally be called Indian and those of west Asia would be called Arabs or middle-easterners. In this they seem to follow the same racial categorisation as the Americans.

Living in "country" Australia, of course, I've heard numerous other terms, but these, again, divide down the same lines.

[Dinosaur]

Cheers guys though I'm no wiser. Context? Kooks, I'll send you a PM as I'm not sure if it's a sensitive subject or not.

[Kooky]

If you have to ask, it probably is.

[Morrolan]

from what i've heard and seen so far, Indians, Sri Lankans and Paksitanis are Indians, all Asians east from that are Asians, Middle easterners are lebbos, Europeans are either poms or wogs or not worth their own category.

[Dinosaur]

from what i've heard and seen so far, Indians, Sri Lankans and Paksitanis are Indians, all Asians east from that are Asians, Middle easterners are lebbos, Europeans are either poms or wogs or not worth their own category.

Y'know I don't think I'd get on in Australia

[baloo]

from what i've heard and seen so far, Indians, Sri Lankans and Paksitanis are Indians, all Asians east from that are Asians, Middle easterners are lebbos, Europeans are either poms or wogs or not worth their own category.

Turks in my day, but the influx of Lebanese refugees has changed that around.

Wogs were predominately Italian until the whole Wogs Out Of Work comedy team turned the word Wog into one of pride/affection. Since then every southern European has been jumping on the wog bandwagon.

While Pom is generally used for people from the United Kingdom (because the whole concept of one government for supposedly 4 separate countries is too difficult for our simple minds to comprehend), the Scots, Welsh and Irish are extremely quick to let you know that they are not in fact English.

[Dinosaur]

While Pom is generally used for people from the United Kingdom (because the whole concept of one government for supposedly 4 separate countries is too difficult for our simple minds to comprehend), the Scots, Welsh and Irish are extremely quick to let you know that they are not in fact English.

oh absolutely

[Burbage]

Warning, contains uncensored Australian racist language. Do not look if easily offended.

Spoiler: toggle

Up here, Asia is divided into Ragheads, Curry-Munchers and Chinks. And the number of people who use these terms and don't consider them disrespectful is quite astounding.

[baloo]

Not surprised to hear that Burbage. There are ignorant masses everywhere, and the further off the beaten track you go, the more likely you are to find it.

But a question for you, do you think they use those terms with any malice, or is it just ignorance at play ?

[Burbage]

I think it's inferiority actually. They want to imply that the people they direct this language at are to be considered less important that a good Australian (presumably in the case of such people, a good white Australian). And it's usually because they are afraid that someone might actually do the comparison and they'd come up short.

So usually what you see is neither maliciousness nor ignorance, but stupidity and low self esteem.

[baloo]

I think it's inferiority actually. They want to imply that the people they direct this language at are to be considered less important that a good Australian (presumably in the case of such people, a good white Australian). And it's usually because they are afraid that someone might actually do the comparison and they'd come up short.

I've never lived in the Tablelands so I'll have to take your word for it, but definitely not how I see it in the areas of Australia I know well.

[Burbage]

It's the same the world over. Racism is fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear that the alien might be smarter, cleverer, stronger. But to avoid showing fear they display hate. Not that they wil ever admit it.

[baloo]

But you just said there was no malice, so how can there be hate ?

[Burbage]

Malice is the desire to do evil.

hatred is a condition of the mind. It doesn't necessarily imply action.

[Kooky]

Burb, Dino, that other site we frequent - I don't think it happens so much these days, although I don't read a lot of threads, but it used to piss me off no end when an obviously Chinese or Indian poster would ask a genuine question about migrating, or some aspect of expat life in Oz, and the expat Poms would take it in turns to come up with "Number 52 and flied lice, please" jokes.

Ignorance, for sure. The world is full of it.

I reported numerous threads but the management there don't seem to mind that kind of shite.

[Morrolan]

the worst term i heard here was 'curry nigger' when referring to Indians. used together with the term 'curry bashing', which is exactly what you think it is

about as disturbing as it comes.

but in my mind it's a rather racist and annoying minority that amazingly for a large part consists of other Asians (Vietnamese) and Pacific Islanders.

[Lili Von Shtupp]

That's just awful. I can't believe it's 2010 and people still say things like that.

[Burbage]

That's just awful. I can't believe it's 2010 and people still say things like that.

Is it better when people think like that and yet say the politically correct thing? This is my whole problem with the way we deal with racism etc. Just because you change what people say doesn't mean you change what people think. And if they say what they think, we at least know what we're dealing with.

It's the thinking that needs to change, not the language...

[Tas]

inclined to agree with Burbage on that point.

[Lili Von Shtupp]

That's just awful. I can't believe it's 2010 and people still say things like that.

Is it better when people think like that and yet say the politically correct thing? This is my whole problem with the way we deal with racism etc. Just because you change what people say doesn't mean you change what people think. And if they say what they think, we at least know what we're dealing with.

It's the thinking that needs to change, not the language...

I'm not sure if I agree with you completely on this point. When it comes to discrimination, I tend to believe that humans are hardwired for it. It's just another tool for defense in our struggle for survival - we have to size up friend or foe. So for me, the real accomplishment is that there are those of us who have been able to overcome this tendency, to a degree, to allow ourselves to think differently about people who are different from us. But we all still do judge others, every single one of us. If it's not by the color of our skin, then it's by the phone we carry, etc... Fact of life.

So I think the reality is more like this: we can't possibly expect to stop humans from being fearful of other humans who are different, and we can't make other people think the way we want them to think. But we can educate people that it is wrong to act, in either speech or action, in a way that is harmful to others based on this fear. And I think that's the most we can hope for.

[Burbage]

I don't know which is better. I was just putting forward the proposition. As you say, it's a tough nut to crack.