24 years in a cellar

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Fat Bob
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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by Fat Bob » 30th Apr, '08, 11:37

Tas wrote:As for getting back to the main point of the story - just flabbergasting, and just impossible to believe that the wife didn't think it was odd that her husband popped off downstairs or would disappear for hours at a time
Just read that he excavated the basement himself. I'm thinking along the lines of the great escape, having to have choir practice when hammering was required, taking earth out into the back yard in trouser pockets and dropping them down his leg....how did the wife not know that was happening?

As for the time he was away...gone fishin'!
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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by Tack » 30th Apr, '08, 12:08

And then up he pops with 3 children, some fishing trip!

She knew or knew enough that she didn't want to know more. She's probably as damaged a person as all the others.
It's all just too evil and tragic.

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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by Fat Bob » 30th Apr, '08, 14:16

Yeah, that one gets me. How can the bloke and his wife legally adopt the kids. Wouldn't the authorities ask where the kids came from? Obviously not, but hey!
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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by daffodil » 30th Apr, '08, 14:48

Just caught up with this story - just too horrible to contemplate. And agree, the wife has a lot of questions to answer , methinks.
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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by slinky » 30th Apr, '08, 15:22

Yes, the wife does have some questions to answer, but if he could do what he did to his daughter, I'm pretty sure his wife didn't get away with a whole lot during her marriage.

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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by daffodil » 30th Apr, '08, 15:47

Fat Bob wrote:Yeah, that one gets me. How can the bloke and his wife legally adopt the kids. Wouldn't the authorities ask where the kids came from? Obviously not, but hey!
It's being reported that he claimed the children were dumped on the doorstep by their "runaway" Mum, rather odd that the authorities wouldn't question it. Once, maybe, but three children?
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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by kittykat » 30th Apr, '08, 15:57

I don't understand how she gave birth to 7 children in a cellar with no medical help or assistance at all. Being locked up in a dungeon and seeing no sunlight for 24 years or for your whole life is too hard to fathom. I've read how kidnap victims end up worshipping their captors and becoming totally reliant on them. The case of that young Austrian girl - Natasha who was kidnapped on her way to school and kept for 8 years or something. I read her case.

What's a fit punishment for a man like him?? He's had 24 years of absolute control and fantasy. He's 73 and probably will survive 4 years in jail. I hope there is a heaven but more importantly I hope there's a hell and rots there the way he left his own child to rot in his basement.
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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by Fat Bob » 30th Apr, '08, 16:02

I think there is no punishment. I just hope he commits suicide as soon as possible and then we can be rid of him. At least Fred West did that, unlike the tax payers having to pay $$$ to keep them from harming themselves.....sod that!
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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by Burbage » 30th Apr, '08, 19:33

kittykat wrote:I don't understand how she gave birth to 7 children in a cellar with no medical help or assistance at all.
200 thousand years worth of human females probably did the same thing. Maybe not in a cellar, but medical help is something VERY new.

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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by TheD » 30th Apr, '08, 23:29

Spot on Mr Burb :!:

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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by Fuzz » 1st May, '08, 08:40

From SMH. Somehow I think there will be a Hollywood movie in the future about this tragic situation or a telemovie.

Dungeon kids 'growl and coo'

Image
Austria's house of horrors ... Elisabeth Fritzl, her father Josef, and the basement where she was kept.

Paola Totaro
May 1, 2008 - 7:05AM


They growl and coo at each other using unintelligible words and signs to communicate, and the five-year-old prefers to crawl rather than walk upright.

Outside, the excitement of the sun, the moon and fresh air is almost too much to bear while a ride in an elevator - and a mobile telephone - have sparked unabashed wonder.

For the so-called cellar children of Amstetten, life outside their father's tiny prison is proving to be a mixture of joy and terror as they try to acclimatise to the cacophany of stimuli of a modern world.

According to Austrian police officers, Stefan Fritzl, 18, and his little brother Felix, five, only learned to speak by watching television with their mother Elisabeth, 42, but their speech is only partly intelligible to those outside the family.

According to police chief Leopold Etz, who has come face to face with the two boys, it is only half true that they can "speak" : "They communicate with noises that are a mixture of growling and cooing. If they want to say something so others understand them as well they have to focus and really concentrate which seems to be extremely exhausting for them," he told the Daily Telegraph.

"Felix prefers to crawl but he can walk upright if he wants."

According to Dr Berthold Kepplinger, who examined the brothers at a neuropsychiatric clinic near their home town, the boys communicate between each other but not in a normal way and while their mother taught them to read and write a little, she herself had lost much of her childhood knowledge after her imprisonment at the age of 18.

The children were not provided with any books and TV was their sole teacher. When little Fritz saw the moon, he is reported to have asked if it was "God up there?" and he exploded in gurgles when he saw a cow.

Doctors are reported to be worried that since he emerged from his prison, he is constantly excited and keeps trying to touch the air with his hands. The sun sent him into paroxysms of excitement and when he realised he could not keep his gaze on it, he covered his face with his hands.

A ride in an elevator frightened him and he clung to his mother, but when a police officer's mobile phone rang - and then he spoke into it - the little boy could not conceal his wonder.

Details of the children's first days outside have emerged as questions begin to be asked about whether Josef Fritzl could really have concealed his horrific prison for so long without an accomplice.

The Times of London reported last night that Austrian police believe that only Elisabeth, Josef's daughter - not the children - was sexually abused while a prisoner.

However, they have not denied that they are looking at the murder of a young girl, Martina Posch, 17, more than 20 years ago.

Ms Posch disappeared from her home in 1986, and was found dead ten days later, bound on the shores of Mond Lake, where Rosemarie Fritzl, 68, Josef's wife, is reported to have had a guesthouse.

Inspector Alois Lissl of the Upper Austria police said that the investigation was complicated by the lack of DNA at the time, but that witnesses at the time reported she was picked up by a man younger than Fritzl.

"We are investigating the possible connection, but at this stage the probability is not very large," he told The Times.

The lengths to which Fritzl went to hide his dungeon have also begun to emerge and included a steel door with remote control reinfroced in concrete. Fritzl has reportedly told police that he deliberately left tools by the door to ensure it could be opened if something happened to him.

The dungeon was also extended by Fritzl when it became overcrowded following the birth of the children and whitegoods were installed including a freezer and washing machine powered by generator.

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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by kittykat » 1st May, '08, 09:46

Burbage wrote:
kittykat wrote:I don't understand how she gave birth to 7 children in a cellar with no medical help or assistance at all.
200 thousand years worth of human females probably did the same thing. Maybe not in a cellar, but medical help is something VERY new.
True but there were women in the community who were unofficial mid-wives who would monitor the progress of the baby and help through childbirth.
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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by goingaroundagain » 2nd May, '08, 00:00

Got some news here that there was a lodger in the house for X years an he saw someone else going into the basement. He said he heard sounds but was told it was the gas heating or something - just caught some on BBC World. Lodger said the old guy said` that his house would be famous some day.

Apparently he pretended to be his daughter and phoned his wife saying it was his daughter and could she look after some kids dumped mon her doorstep.

Apart from the fact that it beggars belief it seems almost comical that he could have got away with it for so long.

Now they have some video of him on holiday in Thailand. So who looked after the kids ?

So many questions and so few answers.

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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by chocolate » 2nd May, '08, 04:28

Tasteless "joke" i got from my uncle

"An Austrian journalist asked a neighbour how long he had known Josef Fritzels daugher Alice.
"Alice?' he replied. "Who the f*** is Alice, you mean for 24 years I've been living next door to Alice!"

Sorry...
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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by Lichtgestalt » 2nd May, '08, 05:11

ok, wanted to wait until someone else makes the first joke but since chocolate was so kind.... Alice also put a devastating blow to Maddie's hope of setting the world record for hide and seek.

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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by Spike » 2nd May, '08, 09:47

Burbage wrote:Whether it was the Hitler Youth or a similar organisation for younger children probably isn't moot.

This man spent his formative years, read easy brainwashing years, age 0-10 under the control of the Nazis, an organisation which was well aware of the power of brainwashing children. There were six and seven year olds who denounced theior own parents to the Nazis. There is a whole generation in Germany and Austria of this man's age who are seriously fucked up because of it. Many of them would of course have wised up, intelligent people cease to believe in nonsense as they get older, but those of lesser intelligence are likely to spend the rest of their lives believeing it. Religion also depends on this phenomenon.
Nazism or not, I agree with Burb on the point that most emotional baggage (+ve or -ve) is implanted in us between the ages of 0-10. Actually, if you ask a psychologist they'll probably tell you 0-7 years old. Therapists earn a lot of their income helping people unlock self-limiting beliefs and distortions that stem from this age range. These things are inculcated through parental influence, environment, religion and culture.

As far as this Austrian case is concerned, the thing that amazes me is that the wife apparently says that she knew nothing about it. So, it didn't occur her to say to her husband, "You know that daughter I gave birth to some years ago. I can't find her. Any idea where she is?" Husband, "No." Wife, "Well that's a mystery. Oh well." There has to more to this plot than the media has uncovered so far.
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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by Fuzz » 2nd May, '08, 11:04

The thing that irks me in the middle of all of this is that a lot of folks come up with personal hypothesis and speak as if they have the authoritative truth. I mean, when Burb posted this earlier in the post, the exact line is "Austrian. 73 odd years old. 2008-73=1935, Hitler Youth.". What the???? The statement's not even constructed as a hypothesis. It was only later on in the thread that he admitted that he was making an assumption.

I get so friggin' sick of pseudo-psycho babbles as well - having gone through two sessions of NLP *AND* finding benefits in some of the techniques and material, I am totally annoyed when everybody seem to be expert in saying things like "self-limiting beliefs", "lifepath", "daily intention". Can't anybody speak simple English anymore?

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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by TheD » 2nd May, '08, 11:26

OMFG Burby and Spikey together? I'm going to go hide in my cellar for 24 years :shock:

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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by Spike » 2nd May, '08, 12:01

Fuzz wrote:The thing that irks me in the middle of all of this is that a lot of folks come up with personal hypothesis and speak as if they have the authoritative truth. I mean, when Burb posted this earlier in the post, the exact line is "Austrian. 73 odd years old. 2008-73=1935, Hitler Youth.". What the???? The statement's not even constructed as a hypothesis. It was only later on in the thread that he admitted that he was making an assumption.

I get so friggin' sick of pseudo-psycho babbles as well - having gone through two sessions of NLP *AND* finding benefits in some of the techniques and material, I am totally annoyed when everybody seem to be expert in saying things like "self-limiting beliefs", "lifepath", "daily intention". Can't anybody speak simple English anymore?
Self limiting belief is simple English. It's a belief you hold that places limits on your behaviour. Nothing psycho babble about that. Some self limiting beliefs are good ones, like an inherent belief that you cannot be violent towards people. Others are not so helpful. There's always an underlying reason why people behave in the way that they do, but that's not an excuse for criminal behaviour it's just a fact. What this Austrian git did was terrible, no matter what mindset caused him to do it. BTW, what's 'lifepath', sounds like psycho babble :geek:
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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by Spike » 2nd May, '08, 12:04

BlackHoleSun wrote:OMFG Burby and Spikey together? I'm going to go hide in my cellar for 24 years :shock:
As long as you're not shagging one of your children while you're down there, feel free. But don't blame me when the Hitler youth come calling for you.
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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by TheD » 2nd May, '08, 12:11

They came calling. I pulled their short pants down.

Naa na na naaa na

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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by Spike » 2nd May, '08, 12:14

BlackHoleSun wrote:They came calling. I pulled their short pants down.

Naa na na naaa na
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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by TheD » 2nd May, '08, 12:21

[smilie=aikido.gif]

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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by BFG » 2nd May, '08, 13:15

chocolate wrote:Tasteless "joke" i got from my uncle

"An Austrian journalist asked a neighbour how long he had known Josef Fritzels daugher Alice.
"Alice?' he replied. "Who the f*** is Alice, you mean for 24 years I've been living next door to Alice!"

Sorry...

I know, I know. But still....

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Re: 24 years in a cellar

Post by Fuzz » 7th May, '08, 14:36

What a sick bastard!!!! [smilie=mad.gif]

From news.com.au

Fritzl may have raped granddaughter
By staff writers
May 07, 2008 03:51pm


AUSTRIA'S dungeon dad Josef Fritzl may have raped his own granddaughter after keeping his daughter as a sex slave for decades, police have said.

Mr Fritzl has admitted keeping his daughter Elisabeth in the soundproof, windowless basement for 24 years, repeatedly raping her and fathering children by her.

Police now fear that as Elisabeth aged prematurely as a result of her ordeal, Mr Fritzl turned his sights to their daughter - and therefore his granddaughter - Kerstin, Britain's Daily Mail has reported.

Kerstin, 19, is now in a medically induced coma and is suffering from multiple organ failure. But doctors say her condition has improved slightly and her life is no longer in danger.

"She has become more stable, but despite that we have to continue to keep her under sedation and give her respiratory help," a doctor was quoted as saying.

Police are waiting for her to be taken out of the coma before they can interview her to confirm their suspicions that Mr Fritzl used her as a sex slave replacement for Elisabeth.

Chief investigator Franz Polzer yesterday said: "His motive was to recreate the situation he had with his first family, the legal family, but this time with a good looking young daughter".

Police say Mr Fritzl admitted imprisoning Elisabeth and her three children when his dungeon was uncovered, but since then has refused to give any further information.

Officers have spent days in the dungeon collecting evidence. Some have been offered trauma counselling after just a few days in the dark, deprived conditions.

Mr Fritzl's lawyer has said his client may plead insanity. Other reports have said that even if he does go to prison, any sentence would be no more than 15 years.
Last edited by Fuzz on 7th May, '08, 15:08, edited 1 time in total.

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