disgusting, fat, ugly people everywhere!

[Morrolan]

finally, it's official.

Australia is world's fattest nation.

it's sickening, like walking around in a freak show... i'm appalled by the levels of obesity around here and how these slobs keep stuffing their faces. worse: society is so PC you're supposed to treat these yobbo's like there's nothing wrong with them.

ick.

and, no, this has nothing to do with those that have medical issues that prevent them from being thin as a reed. this is about those 4 million people shuffling around that just eat too much and move too little.

DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, FOR FRAK'S SAKE!

[baloo]

so, just so I understand the rant. Are they disgusting because they are fat ? Are they ugly because they are fat, or they'd be ugly anyway ? Surely Yobbos can be skinny too. Or are you targeting Ugly Fat Yobbo Australians specifically ?

[Fat Bob]

If he hates it so much he can always go home!

[Aliya]

I always thought the fattest people were in Surfers Paradise... And the hospitals there were full of people with weight related diseases from the old knee replacements, strokes, cancer and blocked arteries etc. Having said that my parents died of alcohol and smoking related illnesses and used the OZ health system to the end and if I look at the demographic of their friends I don't think fat people form the majority - at this point - of people with weight related diseases even if they were what I would class as overweight.

While the majority of their friends were overweight their issues were mainly smoking related, they were all relatively active people born at a time before fast food and raised on non preservative based food in much more healthy surroundings than now in an environment where people understood food better than they do now. Sure many of them have bung knees and bad hearts due to weight and booze and fags. But what does worry me is that there is a new generation of people - born say mid 1970's onwards - who have been raised on fatty preservative full foods, who were not brought up on an outdoor lifestyle - mainly because of the rise of computuers, TV etc - who have no idea about how to cook or understand food and to whom being overweight is just something that happens. These are the people who are not as healthy as the previous generations and who will be needing healthcare before long before the smokers will, who I think are in a reducing demographic. I read of young people who are so overweight they already have diabeties, knee problems and just general health issues - way before they should.

I really think that weight is the new health problem and governments will be nuts if they ignore this. We are terribly let down by our govts in the information about food that we are given, even for foods with lists of contents. Products that are full of sugar, preservatives, very little nutritional value are freely available. There is no point saying let people make their own decisions when it is pretty clear that people are not able to make decent decisions about food because they simply dont know enough about it.

In my view a good start forward would be to bring back cooking classes - for girls AND boys this time . Cut down the amount of sugar allowable in products. Cut down processed foods in food. All that sort of thing. Promote healthy food. You have to appeal to the lowest denominator sadly and also the fact that in general most parents work, you need to do so in a way that parents can still pull together lunch or dinner quickly for the family.

[kittykat]

You make some good points Aliya though I think you can forget the current generation of adults and target their children. Growing up in Ipswich where unemployment was very high, low standards of education etc I worked part-time in one of the fast food chains. Every pension / dole / benefits day you'd see people coming in and buying up big. There was a Dominos Pizza across the road that had 2 pizzas for $5 (walk-in) and they were always packed. I remember chatting to a customer one day remarking how busy Dominos always is and they made the comment "these people can feed a family of 4 for $5 and fill them up cheaply - you couldn't make dinner for that". You could go into a tirade about good nutrition and buying up at the markets and making big bowls of vege soup or whatever but it's a different mindset you are dealing with.

I also think that food provides comfort for a lot of people - it's not about them not wanting to be slim etc - it's a symptom of a cause. It's a big challenge - but I don't really think the Government can do much (except make most of us pay more taxes to cover the increased medical costs as these people become a drain on the medical system). Education won't work on this generation (well it may but the costs would far outweigh the outcome of success I'd guess).

Interstingly, NZ is now doing a BMI test for immigrants coming in. This is to stop people with major or potential health problems that are weight related costing the health system.

Don't know what the answer is here. Tough nut to crack.

[Morrolan]

so, just so I understand the rant. Are they disgusting because they are fat ? Are they ugly because they are fat, or they'd be ugly anyway ? Surely Yobbos can be skinny too. Or are you targeting Ugly Fat Yobbo Australians specifically ?

yes.

[Burbage]

Problem is that the two primary causes of obesity are Australia's two primary agricultural products. Sugar and wheat. The goverment will not say anything against them.

[Morrolan]

Interstingly, NZ is now doing a BMI test for immigrants coming in. This is to stop people with major or potential health problems that are weight related costing the health system.

Australia does so too: anyone with a BMI over 25 has to slim down or they won't get in... which is kind of hypocritical and pathetic when you consider how lax they are when it comes to being a bit more active in keeping the existing population healthy.

Aliya is making some good points, but it won't happen with the kind of PC mentality that exists in Australia nowadays.

[kittykat]

Australia does so too: anyone with a BMI over 25 has to slim down or they won't get in... which is kind of hypocritical and pathetic when you consider how lax they are when it comes to being a bit more active in keeping the existing population healthy.

Aliya is making some good points, but it won't happen with the kind of PC mentality that exists in Australia nowadays.

Interesting I didn't know that. The government will have to do something when the health problems become catastrophic which I don't think is too far off if not already here. I wonder how long until weight related issues will not be covered by medicare or private health. The thing is the people who are obese are GENERALLY the people from low-socio economic backgrounds who have little interest or don't understand about a healthy lifestyle.

As I say - skip the current generation as the behaviour is totally ingrained and focus on the next generation. Make takeaway food more expensive (look at what bringing in high taxes on ciggies did for smokers and turning society into a non-smoking one), incentivise for serving healthy food options which are directly related to prices charged (a salad $2.50 vs a burger which is $7). Childcare affordable/free so people can have time to exercise and fund exercising / health related activities.

One reason I always thought the Dutch were in good shape when I lived there was the pushbike culture. Everyone rides a bike and it's so easy and accessible to do. I rode to work everyday and would meet my friends at pubs riding there and (sometimes if not too trashed) back home.

That wouldn't work in oz but there should be small things that can be done to get people out and moving.

[Burbage]

It's a vicious circle. The people who are economically worse off tend to end up buying the cheapest products in the supermarket, and they are invariably those containing sugar and flour, neither of which is actually nutritional, merely a source of energy.

[Fat Bob]

incentivise

BULLSHIT BINGO!

I spotted it first!

KK: as education really starts at home, how are you going to educate a 10-year old to eat healthily when his parents feed him unhealthily 7 days a week? Impossible, you might as well use these people as cannon fodder and street cleaners and save only the ones that do something about saving themselves.

And yes, though the Singapore system of healthcare is not great, I think it does put an onus on the person to look after himself. The UK and Australian systems seem to have spiralled out of control and need reigning in, if that can actually be done.

[Kooky]

I think we've chatted about this before and Australia is in no way alone in this - you should go to the UK! To be honest, I expect to see lardy arses in the UK but the first couple of times I came to Oz I was shocked - I had the idea they were a sporty nation and all fit and toned. From my brief survey, I think they're like Americans - the fit are fit and the fat are enormous. (The clothes sizes are generous and the Plus-size departments are well-stocked.)

What I have noticed here (and probably commented on already) is the portion sizes are HUGE. Although I don't eat quite so much these days, I used to eat large portions (blame the Yorkshire mother!) but I'm totally overfaced by these.

Do restaurants think they are giving value for money this way? Why not halve the portions and knock a few dollars off the price? A large (and easy) part of sensible eating is portion control.

The supermarkets do sell a wide range of fresh goods and healthy goods (apart from quinoa, it seems) but also an awful lot of stuff I haven't seen for years - tinned stews, processed shite, basically. I heard rumours on another site of Fray Bentos pies.

M is right about the BMI restrictions. On the site I went on a lot for immigration advice, people have lost tens of kilos to be able to move here. There are quite a few health restrictions, actually.

[Burbage]

The trouble with restaurants is that their business model is based on turnover rather than value for goods. Adding more food costs them cents but they can add dollars to the price. People think they are getting value for money, when in fact the only thing that is happening is that they are spending more. The restaurants aren't likely to want to go back on that one.

One cultural aspect of this is the old finish your meal thing. That was drummed into me as a kid. Always finish your plate. It was fine in the days when there wasn't a big pile of food on the plate, but these days it is something to be discouraged. Parents should be advising their children to eat slowly and stop when they don't want any more.

[Fat Bob]

Fuck, just seen what a 1.82m person needs to do to get a BMI of 25. Less than 83kg! So at the height of my fitness last year, I'd have to knock off another 10kg......you'd be wanting to abuse diuretics and laxatives for that weigh-in!

Good, another reason not to emmigrate to Australia!

[baloo]

The BMI isn't really that ideal a target. It's good in relation to other measures, like body fat %, but BMI on it's own is vague at best.

[Burbage]

The majority of athletes would fail a BMI test even though they have low body fat.

[Burbage]

Work this one out.

From the Australian Immigration site:

Being overweight
Being overweight is not in itself likely to lead to failure to meet the health requirement. If the applicant is assessed as being obese, related medical conditions will be explored. These include diabetes, heart disease (including hypertension) and arthritis. Such conditions may mean that the applicant is assessed as not meeting the health requirement.


I thought that "obese" in the BMI was around 28?

[baloo]

Normal weight = 18.5-24.9
Overweight = 25-29.9
Obesity = BMI of 30 or greater

[Kooky]

The BMI isn't really that ideal a target. It's good in relation to other measures, like body fat %, but BMI on it's own is vague at best.

Agreed, but it always takes a while for government bodies to catch up on these things.

Burb - you're so right. I feel incredibly guilty leaving food on my plate; I can hear my mother saying, "starving children in Africa would be glad of that". I've turned into the Burnt Toast woman - I freeze leftovers and eat them when Neo's away.

[Burbage]

So M, where did you get the BMI 25 limit figure from? I would be interested to know, since I'll be doing my medical within a couple of weeks and I need to know if I have to starve for a couple of days.

[BFG]

I agree with Kooky, it's not just an Oz problem.

In the pursuit of equality, hospitals should refuse to help fat b*stards in the same way that they refuse to help smokers.

Well, must rush, my deep-fried sausage, banana, golden syrup and lard white-bread sarnie is cooking....

[Morrolan]

So M, where did you get the BMI 25 limit figure from? I would be interested to know, since I'll be doing my medical within a couple of weeks and I need to know if I have to starve for a couple of days.

a relative of ours applying for a PR. this was 6 months ago. can check to make sure i'm absolutely correct with the number 25. i remember being surprised as the person definitely doesn't qualify as obese (i.e. 30 or higher), merely somewhat stout.

[nev]

Normal weight = 18.5-24.9
Overweight = 25-29.9
Obesity = BMI of 30 or greater

The range is different for Asians (or maybe in Singapore context, yellow Asians).

From the Health Promotion Board website:

Normal weight = 18.5-22.9
Overweight = 23-27.4
Obesity = BMI of 27.5 or greater

At BMI 23.3, I'm officially a fat ass

[Aliya]

Some good ideas coming up here. I agree the current generation is a lost cause and that their kids need to be identified. That is why I suggested bringing back cooking classes (but not Mrs K who used to stick her fingers up her nose constanty with a handkerkief and then poke our scone mix ) so that kids learn to cook properly - I mean combine the right foods etc.

And the govt needs to concentrate on more child care and encouraging outdoor activities. The first is easy to do - channel money from less important causes (there are lots of them and no point in discussing them) and really vamp up childcare. This will give parents more time to get their lives togetehr. Since becoming a mother I am appalled at the child care options not only here (whcih I understand given the availablity of maids) but I wouldnt dare go back to Godzone at this point given the lack of child care options. WTF doesnt govts - who realise that both parents generally work because of huge housing and life costs - don't provide more child care options is beyond me. Yet they subsidise lifestyles of people who should not be subsidised, always shocks me. Priorities are really screwed with governments, they have become too PC for their (and our own) good.

And the govt needs to teach more healthcare at schools. Kids need to know that eating too much sugar and carbs will affect their ongoing health, ie diabeties and weight related problems, just like they brainwashed my nephews about the evils of smoking.

[Lili Von Shtupp]

Tho the lisp drives me crazy, I was excited Jamie Oliver's show about cooking for schools. The resistence he met was really shocking. I know in the US, for schools that suffer budget cuts, earning money from fast food/junk food vending machines and catering contracts was an attractive way to make up the difference. I think that lately though, they're realizing that this goes against a moral duty they have to their students. But to see how hard it was for Oliver to change the mindset. He thought people would jump at the chance for good food, instead he had an uphill battle getting people to choose what's best for them. Crazy program, but riveting stuff.