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Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 23rd Jul, '08, 11:43
by Kooky
Weren't we talking the other day about people not taking the blame for their own actions?

Ok, I'm not a parent, but I think there's something seriously wrong with this parent's logic. If Hamish was so responsible, would he have left his 2 year old sister at the airport? Not that he's the one at fault.

"A mother from Cromwell, New Zealand, is trying to reunite with her toddler in Christchurch this week after the child was barred from coming home on a Qantas flight at the weekend.

Anna Grace is now warning users of airline websites to be careful when booking tickets for children, after her daughter Montana-Rose, 2 years and 10 months, was barred from flying home with her 14-year-old brother on Sunday."


Full article here: http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/qantas- ... 06719.html

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 23rd Jul, '08, 12:08
by azzam
What usually happens is, you book them as an unaccompanied minor and airline staff escort them all the way.
My son travelled that way several times, but not as young as two.
I'm sure if the question had been asked in advance, it would have been sorted.

I guess Hamish left the toddler in the care of the grandparents they were visiting. Must have driven there. It's not so far from Chch to Queenstown - they'll just have to drive!


edit: Moved a comma. I so need to get a life.

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 23rd Jul, '08, 14:42
by Scrummy Mummy
I'm a bit bemused that you wouldn't check something like that.

And, indeed, that you'd let a 14 year old boy fly alone with a toddler. However have no idea how sensible mini-S will be by that age.

To be honest, anyone who calls their kid Montana Rose..........

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 23rd Jul, '08, 14:54
by azzam
Well I always hoped mine would end up lost baggage - but they were soooo efficient.





:o Joking!! Hush my mouth. My boy.... [smilie=bowdown.gif]

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 23rd Jul, '08, 16:33
by Possum
Its a 30 min flight.The airports are nothing more than big sheds. Legally from the age of 14 you are able to be left in sole care of minors.

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 23rd Jul, '08, 16:42
by Lichtgestalt
Can't you send them as unaccompanied bagagge? That's what FB calls them...

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 23rd Jul, '08, 17:18
by Fat Bob
No, it's the mother here who has too much baggage. More than heathrow to be sure!

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 23rd Jul, '08, 21:35
by Pinklepurr
I say she was just trying to get a cheaper flight, as you cannot book unaccompanied minors on-line. It is a total pain but thems the rules with Qantas.

The rest of it was just plain hopeful thinking. She obviously has a lot of faith in her 14yo as well. I know that there is no way I would be letting my 14yo (or when he was one) stepson be in charge of his little brother on a flight with no one else to help. Just asking for trouble, all he would need to see is some pretty thing in a short skirt and the brother would be forgotten...perhaps that's what Hamish did.

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 23rd Jul, '08, 22:42
by Possum
The older brother was 14 so had to buy an adult ticket so the online system would not have registered her as unaccompanied.
Pos # 2 is 13 and she would be more than capable of flying with a 2-3 year old for 50 min….if I would let her is an entirely different matter.
A lot of different factors come into play here. The child’s behavior, the teenagers maturity, familiarity of the environment etc etc

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 00:05
by Aliya
Apparently the rule id 15 years. She refused to check the box un accompanied minor because she was with her brother - but is underage according to airline rules. Still at wouldnt have left the dog with my bro at 14.

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 07:35
by Tas
a few counter points
- she doesn't have much of a position for argument as (1) any mother with half a brain sending a 2yr old off without a real adult would have, and should have, checked the link about unaccompanied children which explains the rules. (2) The rules are clear.
- however, she is completely reasonable in the complaint that the 14 year old, if is going to be treated like a minor or child, should be paying the fare of a child. the rules should be consistent if 15 is the cuttoff age, then it should be for both sets of rules.
- I think the accusations about a 14yr old shouldn't be having responsibility for the child has the potential to be getting over the top, and the holier than thou stuff should be put to the side. I agree with Poss statement. I was travelling on coaches on my own by age of 10 and 11 to visit grandparents or family friends, I travelled over australia and new zealand in a childs choir when I was between 11 and 14 which on reflection had f'all adult supervision, and a few things in between. It's a child by child thing. So if the two children were being walked to the door by responsible grandparents, and picked up at the door by parents, and the children had a 'system' so to speak then I don't really have a problem with it. I wouldn't necessarily do it, but I can see how it might work. it really comes down to a case by case thing.

the story is a bit of a beat up.

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 13:21
by Possum
My 13 year old babysat a toddler last Saturday from 3pm until 10pm (made $50 and was stoked). She was in a home where there were a lot more potential dangers and distractions and no other eyes around. She cooked dinner for the infant etc and was solely responsible for the welfare of that child during those hours. How is this any different?

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 13:30
by baloo
You, and the toddlers parents, were fine with the arrangement. had consented and all parties agreed.

QANTAS, in this case, were not willing to take the risk. In today's sueyou world, I can't blame service industries for sticking to their legal deptartment approved rules and regulations.

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 13:43
by azzam
Not sure about the limits here, but leaving anyone home alone below the age of 13 is illegal in NZ, so it's not just about parental consent. Having said that, when my son was 11 or 12, I could have been arrested several times for the "after school" gap before I got home from work.

Anyway, it's not rocket science with the airlines, just send them as "unaccompanied minors". The airline will get you to sign a bunch of paperwork and then escort them, making sure they are picked up by someone who is officially identified as their guardian at the other end.

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 13:45
by azzam
Haha, I can remember being "babysat" by older cousins heaps of times as a kid. We loved it, had a riot.
Then there were the times outside the pub with a bottle of Fanta and a bar of chocolate. Loved that too.
And being sick and left at home in bed while yer Mum went up the shops. But she always came back with chocolate and a colouring in book. I still miss that when I'm sick....

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 14:08
by Kooky
Isn't there a minimum age for Unaccompanied Minors? IIRC it was raised after a bit of terrorist activity concerning planes.

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 14:12
by slinky
Kooky wrote:Isn't there a minimum age for Unaccompanied Minors? IIRC it was raised after a bit of terrorist activity concerning planes.
I would think a minimum age would be older than 2. Can't imagine that flight crews could be expected to look after a 2 year old with no parent on the plane. In my experience, I wouldn't dare ask them to look after mine just while I was in the toilet.....to afraid of the verbal abuse I'd likely get :shock:

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 15:05
by T2K
azzam wrote:Not sure about the limits here, but leaving anyone home alone below the age of 13 is illegal in NZ, so it's not just about parental consent.
Wow, talk about the nanny state, literally! How can the gov't tell you that? A mature 10 year old can be left at home for a few hours, no problem.

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 15:12
by Burbage
Trouble is that when the government legislates it has to work to the lowest common denominator. Presumably they think that a moron 14 year old is the equivalent of a mature 10-year old.

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 15:16
by azzam
T2K wrote:
azzam wrote:Not sure about the limits here, but leaving anyone home alone below the age of 13 is illegal in NZ, so it's not just about parental consent.
Wow, talk about the nanny state, literally! How can the gov't tell you that? A mature 10 year old can be left at home for a few hours, no problem.

So - what would you expect of a ten year if a house fire starts? Or if a stranger with bad intentions enters the home? It's not about coping when everything is fine, it's knowing what to do when it all goes horribly wrong. Most of the time it doesn't, of course and we've all done it. But my heart would be in my mouth every time.

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 15:41
by Fresh Mint
Qantas were pretty good going to Perth and back at the weekend -- well on the way back, at least.

I was checking in, and the camp as Christmas check in bloke took one look at me and said "You're a big fella, mate, lets see if we can find you some extra legroom" and promptly upgraded me.

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 16:04
by daffodil
Was it love at first flight?

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 16:38
by Kooky
daffodil wrote:Was it love at first flight?
:lol:

[smilie=bowdown.gif]

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 16:42
by sluggo
I remember taking care of the neighbor kids when I was 12 for a whopping 25 cents an hour. Of course that was a very long time ago.

Re: Qantas rule leaves toddler stranded

Posted: 24th Jul, '08, 17:07
by baloo
sluggo wrote:I remember taking care of the neighbor kids when I was 12 for a whopping 25 cents an hour. Of course that was a very long time ago.
Who were you baby sitting ? Mary, Laura & Carrie Ingalls ?