Increase Diversity Bake Sale at California U

[T2K]

This is a high point of idiocy. The "Associated Students" want legislation that will allow universities to consider race and gender as part of their entry selection process. But they "condemn the use of discrimination" and protested this bake sale, even though this event is a demonstration of what they want. So, actually, those protesting the bake sale agree with those hosting the bake sale right? They all think policies which favor one based on their race / ethnicity are wrong?

http://www.startribune.com/nation/130662193.html

UC Berkeley Republicans hold 'Diversity Bake Sale,' heat up debate over affirmative action

BERKELEY, Calif. - A satirical bake sale at the University of California, Berkeley, that was designed to protest affirmative action drew several dozen sweet-toothed supporters along with hundreds of critics Tuesday.

The Berkeley College Republicans held the "Increase Diversity Bake Sale" to speak out against legislation that would allow California public universities to consider race and other factors in student admissions.

The sale set different prices for cookies and cakes based on the buyer's race, gender and ethnicity, ranging from $2 for white people to 25 cents for Native Americans. Women were offered a 25-cent discount.

Critics called the bake sale event racist. But the group said the same could be said about affirmative action policies.

"The pricing structure is meant to be discriminatory," the group's president, Shawn Lewis, said of the bake sale. "We're hoping it will encourage people to think more carefully about a policy that judges people differently based on the color of their skin."

Dozens of people of various races bought a dessert as members of the Republican group held signs opposing the legislation Democratic Gov. Jerry Brown is considering.

At noon, several hundred students dressed in black held a counter-protest, lying down in the middle of a campus plaza to call on Brown to sign the bill known as SB185. Many held signs that read "Do UC us now?"

California has barred giving preferential treatment in public college admissions, hiring and contracting based on race, ethnicity or gender since voters approved Proposition 209 in 1996. The bill would open the door for the universities to consider such factors, alongside others, in admissions decisions to the extent allowed by law.

Student Republican groups have held similar "bake sales" on other college campuses to oppose affirmative action policies.

Tuesday's events were part of a heated debate on this famously liberal campus over affirmative action and free speech sparked by the legislation.

The bake sale had been organized to counter a pro-legislation effort by the Associated Students of the University of California. The student government organization planned to sponsor a call-in booth where students can urge the governor to sign the bill.

In response to the bake sale, the Associated Students unanimously approved a resolution Sunday that "condemns the use of discrimination whether it is in satire or in seriousness by any student group."

Freshman Maura Mooney, 18, joined the students opposing Tuesday's bake sale.

"I don't think they're doing a good job of getting their point across in a respectful manner," she said. "They're offending a lot of people."

[Fat Bob]

I disagree with such policies that are blanket. I agree with affirmative action policies that, should two kids be brought up in similar circumstances, they are treated the same. Should they be brought up differently, then merits from each should be considered. I'd be happy to lower the qualification requirements for those from deprived areas. No matter where those deprived areas are nor what race that person is.

[T2K]

Setting, say, a maximum household income for eligibilty for a scholarship, is fine. That's not racism, anyone can be poor. Saying that certain races get preferred treatment, no matter what race that is, is wrong as are any policies that are based on race, religion, ethnicity, gender or skin color.

[Morrolan]

as long as those qualification requirements refer to the cost of entry or study i would tend to agree, as long as if the aim is to improve the possibility of those less well-to-do to study.

however, i think lowering other qualifications of entry (such as marks, required level of diplomas) do no one a favour, expecially not those that would be allowed entry.
bringing down the overall level of a university and the qualifications of those studying there just to play the numbers game with minorities makes no sense. it's as ridiculous as the 'no child left behind' policy.

[T2K]

Agreed, I was talking about financial assistance for entry.

Saying "you can't sit in this bus seat because you're black, it's reserved for white people" is just as wrong as saying "you can't have this college entrance slot because you're white, it's reserved for black people" - except, the former has been firmly buried in the US for many decades, whereas the latter is considered ok by many in the US and may be current policy in some states for all I know.

[Tas]

I'd hate to be a half mexican half american african chick at that campus....

[slinky]

The whole idea of reserving spots for this race or that race regardless of academic credentials is absurd, I totally agree. However, I think the reasons behind it stem from a very real situation that really must be addressed and fixed. Have a look at the documentary called 'Waiting for Superman.' The movie is about the complete and utter failure of the inner city public schools in the US and the main point is that the students and families who really want a real and decent education but don't have enough money to move to a better district are just flat out screwed by the system. And there are A LOT of students in that situation and most of them are minority status of some kind. The US needs to seriously look at how to fix the broken education system particularly in the inner cities and throwing more money at it is not the answer. They've been doing that for ever and where has it gotten the people in the failing schools??

I'm talking solely about the students and families who truly care - like the ones you see in the documentary - I don't expect the govt to make parents/students care and want an education - I'd just like to see a real one available everywhere for those who want to have it. I was lucky, my family had enough means to live in a school district that was good and if I had to move back to the US tomorrow, my kids would be just as lucky because priority one would be to make sure we lived in a solid, high performing school district (either that or we'd suck it up and pay for private school). But too many people don't have that option available to them and that is where the problem lies. It's a flat out crime that such a large number of inner city schools in the US are failing a large number of students - no matter what race they are, but the bulk of them are, in fact, minority.

The documentary points clearly at the teacher's union as the root of the problem and I have to agree. Have a look at it - you can download it off iTunes and it's a real eye-opener.

[T2K]

I'd hate to be a half mexican half american african chick at that campus....

Oh no, that would be twice as good, then you can categorize yourself as either group depending on which one best suits you at the time.

[Zephyr]

Agree with your post, Slinks.

[sluggo]

Re: Slinky's post about "Waiting for Superman"

I became suspicious when I saw Slinky's comment that the film places the blame for the failures for public education on Teachers Unions so I did a bit of googling and found that there has been significant criticism of the documentary "Waiting for Superman". Here is a small sample:

Author and academic Rick Ayers lambasted the accuracy of the film, describing it as "a slick marketing piece full of half-truths and distortions."[24] In Ayers' view, the "corporate powerhouses and the ideological opponents of all things public" have employed the film to "break the teacher's unions and to privatize education", while driving teachers' wages even lower and running "schools like little corporations."[24

There's more where that comes from.

[Lili Von Shtupp]

Sluggo, Slinks, there's a new film out called American Teacher that counters the arguments made in Waiting for Superman. Looks very interesting.

"...the film notes that the top-performing countries on international standardized tests in math, science, and reading share a number of characteristics. They selectively recruit for teacher training programs. Training is government funded. The pay is much higher than in the United States. Professional work environments are excellent. And the cultural respect for teachers is very high. In Finland, teaching is the most admired job among top college students. Few teachers leave the profession."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/0 ... k.facebook

[Tas]

sounds interesting Lili

It's a theory I have had for a long time in reference to your above quote. Just based on observation of my parents experiences and my own generation. In the parents generation prior to some major reforms on access to universities, the only way someone from a low socio economic background could get a higher education was through scholarship funding. At that time there was full & partial university scholarship, teacher college scholarship, and nursing college. To obtain scholarships was competetive, and a lot of very capable people ended up in teaching. By the time I was going through university, and teaching had integrated into that system, I noted in the majority the people who ended up in the teaching courses were the kids that struggled in lots of areas prior to uni (especially mathematics, which particularly disturbed me) and a lot of kids swapping out of university courses they were seriously struggling with and moving over to teaching. It seemed to me to be a catch all for people who wanted a degree but weren't really coping in a lot of technical areas. To qualify and balance that I have met a number of people who are there as a vocation, but to be honest didn't strike me as the majority.

Don't really need to spell this out further do I. Unfortunately it's just one more of those truths that people wish to deny, people are so frightened that any allusion to actual intellectual competence is a slippery slope to elitism.

PS we were from the low socio economic part of town

[slinky]

"...the film notes that the top-performing countries on international standardized tests in math, science, and reading share a number of characteristics. They selectively recruit for teacher training programs. Training is government funded. The pay is much higher than in the United States. Professional work environments are excellent. And the cultural respect for teachers is very high. In Finland, teaching is the most admired job among top college students. Few teachers leave the profession."

I could absolutely get on board with this idea, but the 'govt funded' part is an issue these days isn't it? Hell, the US government seems to be barely staying afloat as it is. But, yes, a huge part of the problem is too many good teachers leave the profession due to low pay and burn out and probably to an extent a general lack of professional respect. I know it well, I was a teacher in the US from 1990-1996 - and I was a good one, by at least a few accounts

As far as the teachers union goes, you're going to have a tough sell with me to convince me their number one priority isn't just protecting every single dues paying member - whether or not those members are actually doing their jobs. (And I don't really have a problem with the idea of job protection when it's needed, it's the blanket fight tooth and nail to protect the moron who sits at his desk reading the paper daily in front of his class all year long that gets my goat.) The fact that the union consistently votes down things like merit based pay shows me that the powers-that-be in the union are simply afraid of how many members will get stung by that one. Any teacher worth his/her salt should have nothing to fear and everything to gain by such an initiative, so long as clearly defined and proper ways of evaluating are in place (which totally can be done!).

Anyway, whatever you think of 'Waiting for Superman,' I stand by the point that the public education system in the US is at best in disarray overall, but seriously broken in the inner cities and we are wasting potential for the future as long as we let it stay that way. And I'll mention again that I'd just like to see a real education available everywhere for those who want to have it.

Edit: missing word

[Fat Bob]

sounds interesting Lili

It's a theory I have had for a long time in reference to your above quote. Just based on observation of my parents experiences and my own generation. In the parents generation prior to some major reforms on access to universities, the only way someone from a low socio economic background could get a higher education was through scholarship funding. At that time there was full & partial university scholarship, teacher college scholarship, and nursing college. To obtain scholarships was competetive, and a lot of very capable people ended up in teaching. By the time I was going through university, and teaching had integrated into that system, I noted in the majority the people who ended up in the teaching courses were the kids that struggled in lots of areas prior to uni (especially mathematics, which particularly disturbed me) and a lot of kids swapping out of university courses they were seriously struggling with and moving over to teaching. It seemed to me to be a catch all for people who wanted a degree but weren't really coping in a lot of technical areas. To qualify and balance that I have met a number of people who are there as a vocation, but to be honest didn't strike me as the majority.

Don't really need to spell this out further do I. Unfortunately it's just one more of those truths that people wish to deny, people are so frightened that any allusion to actual intellectual competence is a slippery slope to elitism.

PS we were from the low socio economic part of town

Or to put it more succinctly: those that can, do, those that can't, teach.

[Tas]

mmmm Bob, that's you want to say, that is not what I said. I agree that experience does contibute to the performance of the teacher. If you want succint, people with neither capability or vocation seem to be in the majority who enter into the teaching profession. Your statement implies teachers have no value, I would argue the complete opposite. Good teachers shape and influence generations. Are you honestly suggesting you got your science based degree qualifications in isolation of some decent teachers along the way????

[Fat Bob]

Or to put it more succinctly: those that can, do, those that can't, teach.

OK, for Tas: those that can, do, those that can't, (do) teach(ing degrees)

[slinky]

Or to put it more succinctly: those that can, do, those that can't, teach.

OK, for Tas: those that can, do, those that can't, (do) teach(ing degrees)

[sluggo]

So Bob, what you are saying is the people that taught you were sub-performers (can't do). So what does that say about your education? I'm a bit tired of everyone blaming the people that choose the wonderful and often thankless job of teaching for the problems of our education system. Perhaps if we treated the profession like a respected profession (and paid them accordingly) we might have better teachers and a better education system.

[baloo]

Teachers and Nurses - thankless underpaid jobs which society rely one way more than they are compensated for.

[Fat Bob]

Three things in life that are certain: tax, death.....and nurses.

[Lili Von Shtupp]

The part about finding money for teacher training is a matter of priorities, if you ask me. Which is a better government investment? Tax breaks for Wall Street executives or a fund for teacher training? According to current policy, it's the former, and people wonder why the system is broken. Education is just not important.

[T2K]

Teachers and Nurses - thankless underpaid jobs which society rely one way more than they are compensated for.

I would add police to that and remove nurses. Nurses in the US are paid well and respected as medical professionals (whereas here in Singapore they are low end lackeys for doctors).

I've always thought that it would be a good situation if graduating university students were eagerly competing for limited and highly sought-after slots as cops and teachers. Both have a lot of interaction with people that need them (for different reasons). They can make a big difference. Instead, both end up (again, in the US context, not here in SG) often, though certainly not always, being filled by people for the wrong reasons.

[slinky]

Nurses in the US are paid better than they used to be, but I'm not sure they are yet getting what they fully deserve. I worked as a nurse's aide when I was in uni for a bit (eeesh, talk about a horrible job ), and nurses need to know basically what a doctor knows and they have to know all about pharmaceuticals for when the doc prescribes a bunch of stuff without thinking about what's going to interact with what. Nurses have way more responsibility than they get credit for.

I'd add police too.

[T2K]

According to this: http://www1.salary.com/Registered-Nurse-salary.html

Average salary for a registered nurse is US$65,000. In almost anywhere in the US that's a good annual income. Police and teachers average about US$40,000/yr according to the same site.

[slinky]

Ok, 65k is decent - guess I've been away from the US awhile.