I really dislike 'that woman'

Joseph27 · Post by **Joseph27** » 18th Apr, '13, 19:03

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politi ... 2i0sv.html

Definitely voting liberal next election - she is an opportunistic revolting human being... At least Abbott will be a more credible economic manager, Gillard is just vile and panders to the lowest of the low. God I am pissed off at how such a simple issue of human rights gets sold down the river the name of vote buying.... The problem is that the electorate is moving ahead of her. So reflective of just how shit a politician she is and basically how crappy a human being she is

baloo · Post by **baloo** » 18th Apr, '13, 21:01

Heh, I bet you like listening to Alan Jones.

Joseph27 · Post by **Joseph27** » 18th Apr, '13, 22:58

Baloo - I am lashing out at her repugnant stand on gay marriage, I recently outed myself and the last person I would bother listening to is a radio shock jock vying for cheap ratings. Her opportunism however stinks...

baloo · Post by **baloo** » 18th Apr, '13, 23:10

You're ranting. Gillard allowed the ALP to have a concience vote. Abbott didnt in the name of politics.

How you could think Abbott is a better economic manager is beyond me. Aus have starred on the global economic front. The Libs introduced the middle class handout which is crippling political discourse.

Do you think the Libs would have a lesbian Asian on their front bench ?

Fat Bob · Post by **Fat Bob** » 18th Apr, '13, 23:16

I've never felt so unconcerned about a particular political or social issue. Totally ambivalent. Couldn't give a toss whether gays can get married or not. There again, couldn't give a toss whether anyone gets married or not. I do like a party though, so please invite me.

I think Paul Akford summed it all up in an article in the Telegraph. For those that don't know, Paul Akford is a former rugby player turned reporter in probably what is one of the more right-wing, conservative papers in the UK, commenting on two big names in the full-on macho game of rugby that had come out:
============
The sexual preferences of rugby players, indeed any individual, is nobody's business but theirs, but [Gareth]Thomas seems to me to have a distorted view of the sport which has given him his livelihood. "It's pretty tough for me being the only international rugby player prepared to break the taboo," he said. "Statistically I can't be the only one, but I'm not aware of any other gay player still in the game. I'd love for it, in 10 years' time, not to even be an issue in sport, and for people to say: 'So what?'"
Isn't that the case now? When referee Nigel Owens came out in his autobiography earlier in the year, nobody so much as batted an eyelid. Owens' reputation was not affected. He remains an outstanding official, one of Europe's best. I've reported on matches he has refereed subsequently and there have been no insults or sneers from supporters or players. It's been business as usual.
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Hope you enjoyed your outing!

Joseph27 · Post by **Joseph27** » 18th Apr, '13, 23:20

If they had a candidate of Penny Wongs abilities probably yes.

The labor party has been an ineffective government and though I am nervous of Abbott - I would rather vote Liberal than return Gillard. She lacks moral fiber - she killed the gay marriage debate from the start and openly criticized it - putting the vote to parliament was moot after that.

Abbott doesnt stand for many of the things I believe in - but Gillard has been totally ineffective as PM and stood for nothing. Keating took Australia into the future, and you are right Howard crippled us with middle class welfare to buy election of election. Something has got to change and returning that contemptuous PM isnt it.

She could have stood for something, been a good leader but she didnt. She always pandered to the next days headlines instead governing,

baloo · Post by **baloo** » 18th Apr, '13, 23:26

The ALP have actually been quite effective if you spend some time doing research that isn't tainted by the press. They are just crap at getting the message out.

All Abbott has done is attack the government with a view to disrupting everything. He hasn't released a single policy and I bet when he does it won't be independently costed.

Having Tony Abbott as a Prime Minister will be the most damaging thing that could happen to Australia. I'd rather Pauline Hanson.

Tas · Post by **Tas** » 19th Apr, '13, 07:09

Actually yeah, think I'd prefer Pauline, at least she is consistent and you know who she really is!

Morrolan · Post by **Morrolan** » 19th Apr, '13, 10:41

if you think Abbott would have a moral stance on anything you are hopelessly deluded...

slinky · Post by **slinky** » 19th Apr, '13, 10:43

Morrolan wrote:if you think Abbott would have a moral stance on anything you are hopelessly deluded...

Hmm, I'd actually like to meet a politician from anywhere who has a moral stance on something....seems they all end up lacking in that area.

Joseph27 · Post by **Joseph27** » 19th Apr, '13, 19:52

Abbott buys into the status quo - and though he has little character, Julia has zero.

He certainly wont take a stance however over the course of the next 2 years, it will go to another conscious vote and pass - especially if the US supreme court throws out DOMA.

I wanted to like Gillard but every message is off key, every step is a misstep and in one of the worlds luckiest economies, she cant get that right.

baloo · Post by **baloo** » 19th Apr, '13, 20:12

Again, what economically has the ALP mismanaged ?

As for messages being off key and missteps every step, look past what's being reported and how she is being portrayed constantly by the press. The bias in the media is as bad as I have ever seen it.

You want to vote for the name that turns into a bobbing head mumbling incoherently when posed with questions he hasn't rehearsed as the Aussie prime minister ? Hd get eaten alive and we'd be a laughing stock.

Then man that said to not believe what he says in the heat of a debate, only what is scripted and rehearsed ?

The man who tries to run out of parliament ? The man who does nothing but disrupt government ? The man who had a staffer liken homosexuality to beastiality and only took action when the press wouldn't let up ?

If he gets in there is no way I would return to live if he gets into power.

Joseph27 · Post by **Joseph27** » 20th Apr, '13, 08:18

On a scalability factor - Abbott seems to be one of Australia's least favorite politicians, unfortunately we have had to endure Gillard and so unfortunately he seems destined to be a PM. That sucks but I find I can't get over key aspects of Gillard's general level of incompetence at delivering message. Australia is such a robust economy on the back of the mining boom however there is very much a two speed economy and the moment the Chinese show the slightest drop off, tens of billions are wiped of stocks... the peak is coming off and unfortunately since 98 - there has been little investment in anything other than maintaining power by either side of politics.

If after the last election Gillard had been open and honest about the carbon tax, about having to do a deal
to stay in power with the greens, if she had lived up to her own personal values instead of stooping to the level of the average western sydney voter - she could have been a great PM... but she hasnt been because her political character is so flawed.

Now is Abbott any better? - to date he is simply trying to do a Howard circa 1996... when he gets into power, there wont be a dramatic change, he is locked fully into the same paradigm that Gillard is. You ever notice when when legislation is needed in a key area of reform to maintain status quo, regardless of what the Greens say - it flies through both houses unimpeded because both sides arent going to compromise the actual political structures.

I would really like to see Turnbull take control of the Liberal party - or more so, see a break out from both sides of parliament of parliamentarians who share a vision of the future, and not simply be locked into their party room shenanigans... but that isn't ever going to happen. Gillard will limp through until September and be thoroughly trounced... She will hold some ground in Victoria and SA but get thoroughly in WA, NSW and QLD.

baloo · Post by **baloo** » 20th Apr, '13, 09:21

Nice, but what have the ALP got wrong with the economy ?

If you're going to vote against her, fine, but be honest about why and don't invent things. The ALP have managed this economy brilliantly. The world around us in crisis but we've come through relatively unscathed. Our finance minister was voted best in the world.

They have done remarkably well considering the press have been Abbott's PR and helped spread disinformation.

If you vote for Abbott as PM and he gets in, remind yourself why you did it every time he makes Australia the laughing stock of international diplomacy and screws the country by handing out more welfare to those that don't need it all while rolling out a fauxband system that costs billions and sets Australia back 20 years in the info technology space.

Morrolan · Post by **Morrolan** » 22nd Apr, '13, 13:08

what he said... i can't see where you are coming from with her having 'no character'. what is your definition of character if you consider Gillard having less of it than Abbott, a sneering bully, with morals and mindset firmly entrenched in the MCP side of any discussion.

his team couldn't manage an orgy in a brothel. in contrast Labor has done exceptionally well, when compared to the rest of the Western world...

Bender · Post by **Bender** » 22nd Apr, '13, 17:30

The New Zealand speech; it's brilliant!:

...and the announcement:

baloo · Post by **baloo** » 24th Apr, '13, 22:36

baloo wrote:Nice, but what have the ALP got wrong with the economy ?

joseph27 wrote:

Thought so........

Joseph27 · Post by **Joseph27** » 25th Apr, '13, 18:02

What they got wrong? It is in two speeds and take out the mining boom and you have a very weak economy. The total dropping of Howard's industrial relations platform means its extremely difficult to manage so many business because of the exorbitant wages component. I know so many operators who simply now cut back on when they open because there is no flexibility - other owners just ignore the rules and hire under the table to cope.

Her NBN is poorly planned and even as minister she botched so many programs through sheer incompetence. Wayne Swan may have been voted worlds best treasurer but so too was Peter Costello... it is hard to f**k it up when you tens of billions flowing in through mines. Of course Costello was voted that as Howard simply spent and respent on middle class welfare to keep himself in power.

The last true leader we have was Keating who knew his tenure was short and delivered results. Abbott is an ass of a human being - however I still wont vote Gillard because she is a fundamentally crap opportunist that sold her integrity a long time ago... At least I know Abbott doesnt have any to begin with and in power wont be any where near as bad as you make him out to be

baloo · Post by **baloo** » 25th Apr, '13, 20:09

More opinion without facts. That's fine, I'm not sure anyone cares who you vote for but don't come peddling News Limited & shock jock agendas and lies and expect not to be called on it.

As for Abbott in any way shape or form have more morals the Gillard, well that's one of the funnier things I've read in a while. Real Bolt / Jones views of the world right there.

Joseph27 · Post by **Joseph27** » 25th Apr, '13, 21:20

So what is so wonderful about her? I don't get it ? I don't like read Bolt and I have never listened to Jones... It is such a silly statement to even make... disagree and you must be a Bolt fan... just intellectually lazy and I would have expected more from you

baloo · Post by **baloo** » 25th Apr, '13, 21:38

Heh, I'm the lazy one ? You're claiming the ALP have screwed the economy. They haven't. The world has been in crisis and they've steered us through it to the praise of the IMF and World bank. Yet you keep harping this economy with no, I repeat, o facts, yet I'm te lazy one ? Lol.

I didn't label you a bolt/jones consumer because I disagree with you, I called you that because you're sprouting the News Ltd disinformation without doing an ounce of research yourself into the true state of the political landscape.

The ALP have good policies and have done well, despite the crippling parliament. They are crap at getting their message out and letting the people know. News Ltd have done well there.

The Libs have no policy. Nothing. They just oppose and oppose. You call NBN a failure ? For fucks sake, the Libs plan will put Australia in the slow lane, stuck behind a tractor, on the n formation super highway.

What's wonderful about her ? Not much. But given the choice between her andAbbott as Prime Minister of Australia, there is no doubt in my mind who the safer choice is.

If either party changed leader they'll most likely get my vote.

Joseph27 · Post by **Joseph27** » 27th Apr, '13, 00:37

Hey fuck it - I just got pissed at how shitty a leader Gillard is and how bereft of character but there is no way I can continue arguing for the libs with Abbott as leader.... backed myself into a corner and just annoyed you called me a Jones listener or bolt fan.

I really find Gillard annoying but it is hard to argue that Abbott is better... just disillusioned I guess... And just in mitigation - this slight concession only comes after a few glasses of talisker... Cheers

*********

added on for good measure - I so agree about changing leader... amazing the poor choice we have. And still annoyed to be said to be Bolt fan or Jones listener - even if refusal to concede initial point is reflective of certain nuance within said demographic. I honestly don't know who I will vote for at the next election - I am registered in the speakers seat - she holds it by 7% at the moment and it seems that in Vic - that is unlikely to change. Even still - is it ethical to pray to a god you dont believe in, to deliver a lightening strike to 2 politicians you detest?

baloo · Post by **baloo** » 27th Apr, '13, 07:00

We do have a poor choice but if News Limited didn't engage in the hatchet job they have, the choice between the parties would be clrearer.

Look at it this way. Despite the massive bias the media have against Gillard and for Abbott, he still can't break away in there ferried PM polls. How bad must he be ?

Fat Bob · Post by **Fat Bob** » 27th Apr, '13, 08:57

Don't worry J27, you won't be the first person in the world who has trouble deciding who the best Aussie is due to the lack of choice.....

Tas · Post by **Tas** » 27th Apr, '13, 13:22

Couldn't be arsed reading past the 2 economy line earlier. The funny thing on the whole economy line is my understanding of the mining boom is captured in fables of old around making hay while the sun shined instead of saving the nuts like a good little woodchuck. Prior to the end of Liberal last seat in power the money off the savings went to prok barrelling, tax cuts, and didn't invest in infrastructure, will eventually look for the articles if can be bothered. In addition a pat of the health of the current economy can be linked to the billions tied up in superannuation. What's that kids? A labor initiative, Thanks Hawke and Keating.

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