When do kids start understanding No?

[azzam]

I'm so glad all thats' done and I can go back to being a selfish baggage

[BFG]

"An example I remember - the boy hurtling himself down the stairs head first on his tummy. Instead of yelling and telling him to stop it, she simply said " I really don't like you doing that, because I'm afraid you are going to hurt yourself. Can you stop please?" And he did. I was flabbergasted."

It's amazing - speak to children in correct English (or language of choice) and they understand. I have never understood those parents who insist on speaking to their children in "baby talk" and treat them as if they have no brains and then worry that "Little Johnny's" speaking skills are lacking.

Gits...

[Satellite]

I speak to my cat in baby language sometimes...

Edit; ok , most times....

[Fyn]

I've taught baby KK to clink glasses and say "cheers".

Little M does exactly the same. He loves it.

[Pinklepurr]

I've taught baby KK to clink glasses and say "cheers".

Little M does exactly the same. He loves it.

My youngest used to do the same, then take the first sip and go "Aahhhh...."

To all those who understand that one, no, we never drank Fosters.

[Morrolan]

At what age do they start learning what 'get your father a beer from the fridge and make sure it's one of the cold ones and DON'T shake it up' ?

never mind that: i'd simply like him to give it to me and not drink it himself...

(or did you think he was saying 'Cheers' with water??)

[TheD]

A very long long long time ago I used to collect shot glasses. A toddler who could barely reach the counter top stretched on his toes to take one and he did it while looking at me as if to say " Look, look. Look what I'm doing".

I was watching TV at the time and I remember saying "NO" (in what I thought was a very normal firm tone)! The poor kid was so afraid of my tone of voice (which to him probably sounded terribly scary) he tried to quickly put it back but of course it fell and shattered. He was so beside himself with fear the poor boy went "Sorry, sorry" while trying to pick up the pieces of broken glass!!

I ran to pick him up and that frightened him even more and he started to bawl! Nothing happened to him though, and I'm glad he didn't hurt himself.

I remember it vividly as if it happened now. I never said no so forcefully again. I've ALWAYS explained why something should not be done is an as simple a reason and as appealing a manner as possible. I've also found this makes kids good negotiators as they grow.

[Scrummy Mummy]

I think they understand by about now but don't take any notice.

I'm reading a book Toddler Taming at the mo which in a way is obvious but help to clarify. It sas "Toddlers have absolutely no sense" which just about sums it up!

(Also just spent 3 days at an adoption conference, btw, very interesting stuff (in prep for Twinkle))

[cromasaig]

Toddler taming worth buying Scummy?

Edit: That sounds like I'm asking to borrow it (rudely) - I'm not!

Just an opinion.

[Scrummy Mummy]

Ha ha ha.

It's quite good, but kind of obvious, but does put things in perspective a bit. He does advocate controlled crying though, which I don't agree with, especially having been on this adoption course this week.

You actually can borrow it after I've finished reading it, but I'll need it back when the tantrums start in "full"

[Aliya]

Heard good things about the conference wish I could have gone as well. Bugger work. Can I read the book they gave you at the conference as well?? C'mon get orf the forum and start reading so you can hand it over to me Or why dont I read it first as you are fresh from the conference!

[Scrummy Mummy]

Sorry love, didn't give us a book, just powerpoints which she didn't cover much, and I wrote a lot of notes (and drew a few pictures). Am going to buy a few books though so you can borrow those after I'm done.

[Tas]

As a non parent type, I'm nervous to jump in these threads ever. But gotta say, I've never heard a more contentious parenting topic than that of controlled crying I almost think it overtakes the smacking and breastfeeding debates.... it's a goodie to chuck in at barbie if you want to watch a war break out. It's like, never discuss the war, religion or politics......or controlled crying.

[cromasaig]

I'll go to Borders and have a browse through Toddler Taming and buy it if I like the look of it. I have a feeling that O's terrible twos are going to be quite an experience. Mercurial, that one...

[Scrummy Mummy]

That must be so interesting to watch. Two kids; almost identical genetics yet different temperaments.

Tas: We've become terrible hippies now, even do co-sleeping. But after the adoption workshop have decided it's not something we need to fix. Just need to get a bigger bed before Twinkle comes ........

[Pinklepurr]

I'm sure I have Toddler Taming book. We are past that now, perhaps you would like my copy if I can find it?

[Aliya]

Hmmmm time for a Borders morning I think. Group outing of Laydees wanting baby books? We could do coffee afterwards. Or just go straight to the Marriott for a glass of bubbly

[JJ]

out of interest - whats controlled crying?????

[baloo]

Apparently the be all and end all methods of getting kids to sleep at night.

Quick summary. Don't go into the room when the kid cries, let them wail and scream until they cry themselves to sleep. After a couple of nights of this they should get the message and just go back to sleep themselves if they wake up during the night.

We want to try it but first we have to sound prrof BBIII's room for the neighbours sake.

[Burbage]

Give in to crying now and they'll be screaming till they're ten.

Kids don't understand the meaning of the term "no" until they're about six, when they begin to realise that other people view the world differently to them. It is only then that a difference of opinion will make any sense to them. Until then it's just a matter of stimulus-response.

[Pinklepurr]

Yep and six is about the age they really learn how to lie as well.

[Lili Von Shtupp]

Actually, Baloo, the method you describe is the full-on "cry it out" method. "Controlled crying" is supposed to be a compromise of two extremes, where you let the baby cry, but enter the room periodically to comfort (from a distance) letting the intervals between visits lenthen each time, until the child drops off.

I'm not a fan of either method, and actually I'm a co-sleeper too. I'm also an attachment parent, read Dr Sears website and follow the very simple parenting advice from an organization called "I am Your Child" - they produced a book of the same name which was given to me as a gift and it's really blended with my own personal philosophy - basically that the best thing I can do as a parent is build a bond of trust and security between me and my baby/toddler. It's worked very well for us, and for me it just feels "right."

Better Hippy than Hitler.

[cromasaig]

Opinions about what controlled crying is seem to vary as much as the debate about it.

Hand up: I did a version of controlled crying. You have to be sure that there's no obvious 'reason' for them to be crying: nappy, feed, discomfort. So that means you need to be able to identify their different cries. What I did was once they got to about 4 months, when they cried, I would go in every three minutes and talk to them and stroke them, but not pick them up. After a little while of that, I would go in every four minutes, then after another while, every five.

If you're lucky (and I was) it doesn't take more than two nights to see an improvement.

The general idea (for those who agree with it) is that it's a short enough time for them to reassure them they haven't been abandoned, but it teaches them to settle themselves. Some of those who disagree say - not unreasonably - that a baby who is crying needs to be comforted, and that controlled crying is basically teaching your baby that they can't depend on their mother.

I only really needed to do it for A, who early on wanted to be held by me all the time, night and day, which wasn't really fair or achievable. I put them down when they're completely awake now, and they go to sleep themselves. If one cries I go in immediately, because he wouldn't unless he was upset.

There, explanation and desperate justification, all in one post!

Edit: done before I saw Lili's explanation. Wot she said...

[Aliya]

I really feel for you Baloo, I sort of did the controlled crying thing but I am in a stand alone house so those first three nights of Ms A exercising her lungs was OK from the neigbour point of view. But I am a firm believer in not being ruled by crying kids, but it was really hard to do.

[Lili Von Shtupp]

Cromasaig, the flipside of my co-sleeping attachment parenting ways is that, in truth, Wolfie is not the best sleeper. But co-sleeping had to happen given the physical circumstance of my current living situation, so other methods just didn't jive. The good news is - we are moving! We finally sold our place and have bought a flat big enough for everyone in my family to finally have their own bedrooms. Tha bad news is - I will be faced with shifting Wolfie to his own bed in his own room. I've already consulted with a childhood sleep counsellor who will help guide me through the transition, because I really have no idea how to do this. But it needs to be done!